This info is from the same snake oil salesman as the other link. It's the guy selling fuel testing kits.

Maunufacturer Ethanol E10 Fuel Recommendations



Nevertheless, in all of the above, there is only Ferrari that 'prohibits' the use of E10. All the others have a warning/caution to switch back to pure gas if issues arise. The issues are strictly to do with driveability.

Let's compare that typical verbage from Jaguar:

"Most drivers will not notice any operating difference with fuel containing ethanol. If a difference is detected, the use of conventional unleaded fuel should be resumed."

Pretty much same-same as Kia, Hyundai and P/VW/A. The owners manuals in all my other modern cars, on the same list as Jag as being 'approved' for use of E10, also contain a similar caution so the author of this article has inconsistently placed the cars on separate lists. No idea why.

I dug a little to what the issue was with respect to Ferrari. Seems some models have aluminum alloy gas tanks and there's fear that water-laced E10 could cause a corrosion issue. I then contacted a buddy back in Montreal who owns a few. To my surprise, he was completly unaware of the ethanol issue (he's a driving enthusiast but not a motorhead) and stated that he's been filling up 'at whatever gas station is closest' for the last few decades.

Never had a problem. I have an early '80s racing bike with an aluminum fuel tank. Took a look, no damage.

Don't know whether to quote Chicken Little or the Bard on this one but it seems once again it's much ado about nothing in the sky is falling.

Happy New Year to all!

 

Not quite all. Your Ferrari-owner friend stops at 'whatever gas station is closest', but presumably uses ethanol-free premium so is not at as much risk. Has he read the manual?.

If the contaminant is free water, with or without sludge, you are correct.
If the contaminant is a water-ethanol mixture, it has the potential as a lean fuel to cause engine damage. However, such contamination can only occur with E10.

Anyhow, apart from some hard feelings toward DuPont and snake-oil salesmen, and a residual feeling of distrust for E10, it has been a fascinating debate. Thanks to all, and time to move on.

 

You presume wrong. Not all premium fuel is ethanol free.

Much like the vast majority of people who just drive their cars, he has not read the manual. He pays no attention to whether the fuel has ethanol or not, also like the majority of car owners. As to source of fuel, he has also not had any problems with buying from supposed 'off brands' including Satan Costco. Jut like the vast majority of car owners.

On the contrary, it takes only a small % of water in fuel (any type of fuel) to stop a motor. The mixture just won't ignite. The engine will not be damaged due to a lean mixture, it will quit long before anything so drastic occurs. Old myth.

 

Mikey, read my words carefully....

I do not presume that all premium is ethanol-free. I said that your friend was presumably using ethanol-free premium, as mandated by Ferrari.

And again...

Show me an automotive engineer (other than yourself) who thinks that a lean water-ethanol mixture injected into a high-performance engine under load is completely harmless.

Here is your opportunity to once again have the last word. Happy New Year.

 

Nope, all yours.

I clearly stated that my buddy was unaware of the ethanol issue, did not read the owners manual and as a result took no notice of whether the fuel was E10 or 'pure'.

You've moved the goal posts to a 'lean water-ethanol mixture'. A 'water/ethanol mixture' is NOT the same as a 'lean mixture'.

 

Talk about being accurate. After doing a little research I could not find a single gas station in Perth that had a premium gas with any ethanol content. All claim to be ethanol free.


In fact talking to all the major oil companies, not one has admitted to supplying premium gas laced with ethanol to any of their outlets. So only heaven knows where you are getting yours from.

 

I'm sure that's something that varies from region-to-region.

Here in Washington all the high octane/premium is E10. In Oregon (as near as I can tell) non-E10 premium is technically available at the pumps for road use but in looking at the availability maps it appears that only the boat marinas are actually selling it retail.

Cheers
DD

 

Doug I totally agree with you on that.


I only researched Ontario Canada. I started with Perth because of the claim that Mikey had made. My final calls were made to the major oils themselves to find out what they were supplying just in case there was a difference.


I did leave out Sunoco because I am not sure they even know what they are supplying. Can never get a straight answer out of them on anything.

 

Not sure that I ever advanced the idea that Perth was the centre of the universe or what relevance that would have to the discussion even if true.

Does all high octane have ethanol in it? No.
Is all high octane fuel ethanol free? No.

Do I care one way or the other? Also no.

 

Reference post#15


Within the boundaries of Ontario Canada as I stated all high octane premium gas is absolutely ethanol free according to the suppliers.


Then I would suggest you leave it out of your arguments.

 

I suspected something slightly amiss here so just for giggles I pulled the owners manuals for three Ferraris. Besides the obvious contradiction of 'prohibits' versus '....we suggest...' I'd conclude that it's a misleading statement, perhaps outright false.

2007 599GTB: No prohibition of E10 whatsoever. Not even a warning or suggestion or gentle nudge against using it.

2003 Enzo: Same as above

1995 F50: No specific E10 warning or prohibition. However, on this model the fuel tank must be replaced every 10 years regardless of fuel used, and the manual does state that "....excessive additives ..... might necessitate earlier replacement" with ethanol being listed as one of the 'additives'.


Naturally, then, one might wonder if the other 'manufacturer' statements from the same document are accurate.


<shrug>

Cheers
DD

 

I have decided to try using E10-free fuel for a few months in the Jag and see if I notice any differences. Fortunately for me there is a Shell station in the next town over that says on the pump "Shell V-Power 91 gas contains no ethanol".

 

I did some similar research on other vehicles- NONE of had a prohibition on E10. Most had only a motherhood type statement similar to Jag's wording mentioned above.

What's rather ironic I guess is that the OP's question could have been answered in one reply. 'All high octane gas in Ontario is ethanol free'.

 

I'd be gobsmacked if there was any tangible difference from one brand to another.

 

That is probably the same as most other questions that are asked on these forums. Amazing what you can learn with a little research.


Admittedly I have been out of the business for a few years now but when I was actively supplying gas station equipment to the Major oils, all the tanks were fitted with floating suctions. This means the gas you are purchasing comes off the top of the gas contained in the storage tanks. Only time you had a chance of getting water was when the tanks were getting low. This system was a great improvement over the older system of having submersible pumps in each tank. However I cannot help but wonder what effect this will have now that there are selective fuels with Ethanol in them. Accepting that every gas stations storage tank used to contain a certain amount of water, could we now be getting ethanol sludge pumped into our vehicles tanks when these storage tanks are on low instead of the water laced gas we stood a good chance of getting before.


I am sure a lot of improvements have been made in these systems since I retired, so more research to be done to bring myself up to date with the present procedures being used.

 

Look forward to the results of your research, Bob. The ethanol "sludge" you refer to will in fact be an ethanol/water mixture plus any additional crap that is soluble in ethanol but not in water. Emergencies excepted, I try to fill up the day after I see a tanker at a gas station. Always high-test, never E10.

 

I guess I just don't understand why some insist on attempting to convince others that the sky is falling despite the lack of any credible evidence to support it.

E10 is nothing new. There's been no increase in events of contaminated fuel since it's introduction several decades ago anymore than there's been an increase in damage caused directly by ethanol.

This is deja vu all over again- reminds me of the '70s when unleaded fuel was introduced. The predictions of widespread engine damage proved to be false with the exception of some WWII vintage designs, yet almost 50 years on, the grandchildren of these doomsayers still believe it's about to happen.

 

No one says the sky is falling, only that E10 increases the odds. If you choose to skip over the implied warnings from Jaguar, if you choose to dismiss the postings from members of this forum, if you choose to ignore the vast amount of literature from respected sources on the Internet, it's little wonder you don't understand.

 

Mikey Maybe you could try and learn from Doug. His comments even when disagreeing with somebodies point of view are always without exception worded very politely and respectful. Yours on the other hand seem to border on being downright insulting each time.


I know I also have my moments also but at least I try to moderate them a little.

 

I suppose my abruptness is fueled by members who consistently dig up dormant posts for no reason other than to fan the flames.

Both puns intended.

My apologies to all other members, yourself included.