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V6 TTD Massive Coolant Loss (Part 1) . . . A Time Bomb Ticking In Your Cooling System
Compared to the woes of runaway diesels self destructing as a result of poor maintenance or lack of occasional highway drives to clear the DPF, here is an episode to chill the blood of all owners of the 2.7L or 3.0L V6 Twin Turbo Diesel, as fitted to Jaguar's S-Type, the XJ of same era and XF that followed, as well as similar but de-rated single turbo engines in Landrover Discovery, Ford Territory, Peugeot etc etc . . . all these diesel models marketed down under (from MY06 on), but you may know them as different models in your region. I leave it to our Mods, whether this thread, including Part 2 sequel, should be included as a Sticky here . . .
I regret that this will be fodder for all the doomsayers who hate this engine, and point to all its supposed maladies . . . but the truth is, this otherwise smooth, quiet, brilliant engine is fitted with a well hidden part that is so poorly manufactured that rarely sees the light of day. Being formed of 2-piece plastic held together with 'hope' and little else, its failure is inevitable . . . and could result in a seized engine before the driver can react! Here is my engine's near death experience . . .
Very (er) brisk acceleration past a string of 110Kph cars, in outback northern NSW, saw my gorgeous late 2007 TTD S-Type drop its entire coolant in about 3 seconds flat. Stopping from such a high speed took a little longer! A very brief idle, saw only a brief twitch of the temp gauge above normal, before turning off . . . and praying! An hour later, after gently refilling with warm water from a google-eyed nearby farming family, I was surprised to find it gushing water from back near the gearbox! The car started and idled beautifully, but quickly dumped its coolant once more.
Trailered home, the first mystery deepened once I removed the undertray and sufficient topside to confirm that all the heater hoses back at the firewall, were intact . . . but worse, it was still gushing a torrent down either side of the auto trans. What? Thus began weeks of gradually dismantling as much as possible from windscreen forward . . . scuttle, crossbar, all the sound deadening panels, and engine air filter box. What a rotten job that is on this variant with its bizarre tension clips, dual airpipes with the upper making it impossible to reach the lower one. The pile of parts arrayed along my 10m bench was beginning to look like a wrecker's yard! Observing via mirror on a stick, while a mate refilled, did little more than douse me in a shower of now almost clear water!
It was about then that I figured only 2 possibilities could cause such a massive deluge of water from the rear of the V6 engine . . . either there was a well hidden core plug (welsh plug) back there that had not so much corroded as fallen out entirely . . . or the engine block itself had developed an aftermarket hole where none had any right to be!!! The fact that pistons had still been going up and down rather than sideways, was no consolation. Either way, the instrument panel message read “Phone Bank Manager URGENTLY!”
By now, resolved to removing the engine, we began stripping out all the jigsaw puzzle of header tank, air scoop and airbox, left and right EGR pipes, throttle body . . . pretty much everything that Jaguar manage to fit into the 50mm (2”) that separates the front of engine from radiator. At this point, I had an epiphany . . . wouldn't it have been a good idea to have photographed some of this in situ, before it was removed and stacked just shy of reaching my shed's rafters!
As I set about removing the last coolant hose from the hot outlet at front of the engine . . . it literally fell off in my hands. What? Short story is that this part, called Engine Outlet Connection, is subject to well hidden posts here, and on each of the manufacturers listed above, of the reign (!) of sudden catastrophic failures often under hard acceleration uphill. Here are my happy snaps of the outsourced part (Thanks, Ford) . . .
The first pic shows where this part is buried right at front of Vee, easily identified if you know it is buried under all the Vee'd throttle body, air induction and coolant pipes, and electrical wiring, that has been removed here. However, if you look closely, you will see it is gaping in a way that ensures the coolant is jettisoned in seconds.
The second pic shows how this Engine Outlet Connection has been manufactured . . . in two halves with the rear section containing the 3 hot coolant collections on bolted faces to engine, and the front section containing the 3 outflow pipes for hoses leading to radiator, dual cabin heater etc. Note the quaint 1mm wide ribbon of white monkey snot that some dubiously qualified engineer hoped would keep the two glued together. Note also how this ribbon of snot neatly makes way for what appears as boltholes at strategic points but which, presumable for savings of weight and cost, remain blind! The third pic shows what this Engine Outlet Connection should look like. Alas, for this pic, once removed and resting against the grille, I cheated by pushing it back together. I did toy with the idea of using high temp epoxy and oven baking to re-glue this back together, but had already purchased a replacement. More on this in Part 2 . . .
But “Hang On!” I hear you say. “How can this part, buried as it is, at very front of the Vee, cause a deluge back below the cabin?” The fourth pic reveals the answer . . . the 3 brownish coloured outlets are the connections from engine but look to the point of screwdriver, where the front of engine Vee is effectively 'dammed' by the timing case, so the massive expulsion of coolant that follows this part splitting apart, flows back along the Vee either side of the oil filter heat exchanger, leaps like Eddie The Eagle across the bell housing . . . neatly executing a double pike, before splattering onto top, then down each side, of transmission! Mystery solved, but you should read Part 2, for an even more surprising sequel surrounding the fix!
Until then, cheers . . . 'cos there is a happy ending, and I still love her to bits!
V6 TTD Massive Coolant Loss (Part 2) . . So, You Thought Jaguar Parts Were Expensive
Hello again . . ...
For avid readers drawn in by my very frightening (but very true) tale of a catastrophic coolant loss from this otherwise beautifully crafted engine in my equally gorgeous S-Type, I can only point to the pics of really shoddy engineering that sets this time bomb a'tickin'.
Shaking with gratitude that I had not broken my Silver Princess (I had even promised never to exceed the speed limit again, pledged a donation to Amnesty International, and began fasting), I raided all my internet options to find a replacement . . .
Neither Jaguar, Land Rover, Ford, Peugeot, Eurospares had a replacement in Oz and, as most down here are finding, replacements from the northern hemisphere entail re-mortgaging your home to pay for freight, and thanks to Covid-19 are presumed to arrive sometime before I die;
Asian replacements (Yikes!) ran out at AU$195 for Jaguar, AU$90 for LR, or wait for it, anywhere from AU$35 to AU$300 for Ford, all including post free. Downside of cheaper Asian supply was expected 2 month delivery from Wuhan (or such), but this would give me time to check and renew any parts like cabin filter, fuel and oil filters that my disembowling of my once beautiful carriage now made possible. Being convinced all these parts looked identical, and came from the same Chinese supplier, I opted for the $35 Ford Territory part;
Imagine my surprise when it turned up just 3 days later . . . from the distinctly oriental province of Western Sydney, New South Wales! On arrival, I inspected it to find identical construction and moulded manufacturing alpha-numerics as my original part. This is not a careful couterfeit; this is pbviously the OEM (Thanks, Ford) so I have evolved my high-tech fail-safe protection to prevent further failure of that celebrated ribbon of monkey snot;
In the meantime, our exhaustive online searches revealed a South Australian who offers a machined alloy replacement (imagine how all that extra weight will bog the car down) but the price tag is a cool AU$600.
Time now for a quick wrap-up and final pics as, gradually, the mountain of parts along my benches was fitted back into, onto, under and over the engine. There were occasions when I consulted the thousands of pages of Jaguar Workshop Manual and TSBs, but as so often in the past, I find the constant expressions of “Remove blah, blah, blah” without telling or showing you how to get the special O-Ringed quick connectors apart without breaking something is a real frustration.
A word of warning . . . none of these replacement parts include a new O-Ring for the oil cooler outlet which is the rear, central one of the 3 engine outlets. Why is this important? Do what I did and settle for relying on the original . . . and it will leak like a seive! Five minutes at the local Ford dealer secured one (it is a standard R18, IIRC) . . . whereupon mate and I recounted our online experience of AU$35 to AU$300 price for the Ford Territory part to fit my Jaguar. The Parts Manager was aghast, checked his official parts catalogue and announced that, inclusive of GST, his official retail price (not that he had one) was AU$1,070. I kid you not!
The first pic shows the new replacement Engine Outlet Connection, identical to the failed part in every respect, including the moulded alpha-numerics on the rear section, and the two maxi cable ties that I have pulled tight and epoxied to prevent future rupture.
The second pic shows the completely reassembled engine, all buttoned up. The offending part is located roughly midway between coolant header filler cap and U in Jaguar, but totally hidden down about 200mm under a ton of air and coolant plumbing and electrics . . . an easy week-long job now that I have all the special tools and gashed arms that came from finding how to do the job! Mongrel part number two is the air filter box at front right. Quick connect clips like the X-Type? You are kidding, right? My mate learned swear words he had to write down, so he could remember them for his later use . . . we are off to do his Ford Territory next! Fortunately, my overnight test (which led to a lake under car until I replaced O-Ring) precluded my refitting of all the air induction plumbing.
Taking the good with the bad . . . with only a single bolt left over, the engine sprang to life at the first turn of the key, and repeated testing, even at high speed has revealed not a single leak. The second and monumentally major win is that the engine is just as quiet, strong and frugal as it has been from new. There is no doubt that, as I approach my 75th, I am rather chuffed that both my quick witted response when this failed at such high speed, and my subsequent success, despite some missteps along the way, achieved a perfect repair, other maintenance ,and lots of learning in the process.
As to the bad . . . this incredibly poorly engineered part really is a time bomb ticking. In my case, both this issue, and the poorly designed air filter box that makes dismantling and filter change so difficult, have dented my enthusiasm. Oh . . . and no sooner did the car, all buttoned up, pass its road-worthiness inspection with flying colours, than the brake boost failed. The check valve tests OK but the grommet fell out in sad pieces due to oil deterioration. Replaced both. Easy!
As one of the last 2007 cars (even the 2008s were actually manufactured in 2007), it is still my saloon of choice for a relaxing country drive in the big-sky part of Australia where I live. I love it!
While supplier is listed on Oz Ebay, note pricing in GBP.
No explanation as to why mine was cheaper at AU$33.78 (perhaps a 10% Ebay or seller discount at that time)
No explanation that it was not supplied from China, but western Sydney!
As you see, I was wrong when I said my purchase was for Ford Territory. It is identical, but this was cheaper.
Ignore reference to "Thermostat". These may have been OEM, but the Chinese did NOT build my Jaguar!
Note requirement to source an R18 O-Ring for oil cooler standpipe.
Heading my tips and tricks, for anyone who has not replaced their own engine air filter are the following . . .
>
it is doable, but get help, as a two man show will definitely help;
do not try to lever apart the air filter box until the coupling clips are released (you will break the engine side plastic retention lugs);
get straight and cranked long (really long) or special pliers to expand the big dual air pipe clamps;
do not separate the lines of the sensor at rear of this coolant outlet . . . just lift up, off and reposition;
take care when unclipping electrical connectors . . . but note they are colour coded or keyed to avoid reconnecting incorrectly;
have a moderate amount of liquid refreshment handy, as this is not a quick job;
oh . . . and finally, take a few pictures that I overlooked, before finding I had a shed full of bits that once lived in the engine bay!
It goes without saying (but I should have), that on completion, the coolant should be topped up or, as in my case, completely emptied (including both heater circuits) with new coolant of the correct specification and dilution (if any), then bled using the heater settings and top screw, as per manual.
Any questions? Ask away . . .
Ken
Last edited by cat_as_trophy; 05-14-2021 at 11:18 PM.
Having an xj8 from 2003 I do not really need to go trough all that but it is rather interresting .
I drove that engine in my uncle's second Peugeot 607 ,very impressiv torque for that time and with the new 6gear tranny (may have been the same Zf) accelerated a second faster to 100km/h then the 3liter 24v petrol with a little more hp of his previous 607/ 5 gear tranny.
Cat_as_trophy; You might want to check that your pressure relief coolant resevoir cap are working correctly. If it´s jammed (or frosen in winter) it will held too much pressure on the coolant system when hot. This are common cause for cracking plastic parts from any vehicle.
. . . check that your pressure relief coolant reservoir cap is working correctly. If it´s jammed (or frozen in winter) . . .
Winter??? What's that? I live in Australia, mate . . . the land of perpetual sunshine . . .
That said, your point is well taken, and is sound advice for those trapped in the frozen north. Unfortunately, and despite that not applying here, I have since learned that some manufacturers (Ford and LandRover being two) now have service bulletins advocating replacement of this evil plastic part at each 100,000Km.
I share your experience of this engine's enormous torque and the silkiness of that ZF6HP26 auto. All in all, a very nice package, ideally suited to my predominantly rural highway 100+ Kph touring.
Winter??? What's that? I live in Australia, mate . . . the land of perpetual sunshine . . .
Stop turning that knife on my already bleeding wound We should have summer now, it´s freaking +12C and raining.... Last week we had two (2 !!) sunny days with +28C. There are hope that it will warm up soon. Cant drop the hope... Just cant... (Some say, Finnish summer have only less snow, but at least it is short)
How about this: The valve on the cap could get stuck by dryed up remains of coolant, what obiosly pushing thru all the time?
(maybe i shoud order that plastic part too before it is busted? My one have already 250tkm on clock, and no evidence it have ever changed)
Absolutely: Torgue of this twin-turbo Diesel are something what can´t expain by bare worlds. If somebody ask how it feels, just ask him/her to turn around and kick his/her ***.
I have been cruising my one about 100 000km in last 3 years.
I did solve the loss of brake boost (as per thread in S-Type Forum) . . . surprisingly easy, unexpectedly common parts, universally available and cheap!
After the distraction of being dragged away to another Jaguar, this week has brought opportunities for some spirited country driving the TTD S-Type, to fully test the Engine Outlet replacement under maximum acceleration in Sport mode up some very long uphill slopes.
Result? With all new filters, fluids etc, performance was startling. Not a leak anywhere; coolant level unchanged after the engine cooled down. For my money, the new plastic Engine Outlet, complete with epoxied on maxi-ties is a better than original fix!
I'm calling this one SOLVED and RESOLVED.
Cheers
Last edited by cat_as_trophy; 06-03-2021 at 06:06 AM.
Reason: ref to S-Type Forum
05-13-2021, 10:14 AM
V6 TTD Massive Coolant Loss (Part 1) . . . A Time Bomb Ticking In Your Cooling System
We should have summer now, it´s freaking +12C and raining.... Last week we had two (2 !!) sunny days with +28C. There are hope that it will warm up soon. Cant drop the hope... Just cant... (Some say, Finnish summer have only less snow, but at least it is short)
