My posts in companion thread V6 TTD Massive Coolant Loss (Part 1) . . . A Time Bomb Ticking In Your Cooling System wrapped up that thread as RESOLVED, but hinted at future follow-up to assess success and reliability. That was nearly 18 months ago and long overdue. In the meantime, I have undertaken or overseen similar replacement and/or prevention fixes on several other vehicles . . . 2 more Jaguars, a LR Discovery, and 2 Ford Territories.

All these cars have similar engines (non Jaguar not as highly developed) and share this same rotten OEM glued plastic part. Only two had failed like mine and both, like mine, had escaped entirely any residual engine damage by virtue of rapid shut-down by drivers. Each of the remaining owners were sufficiently worried to take preventative action to avoid the same experience.

Thanks to PMs from another Aussie member [GeeVeeXF], I have been prodded into action for this update. Against the backdrop of his pristine 2008 XF which shares this same 2.7L V6 TTD engine, Graeme posed a series of really sensible questions about this weakness in what is otherwise a silky smooth, reliable engine . . . provided it is well maintained. As a result, he is contemplating similar preventative action . . . and I have taken the liberty of rephrasing some of his queries to better inform others on this diesel forum.

First . . . Has the Jaguar fix proved reliable and lasting?
Considering my original part lasted 14 years and almost 120,000Km before catastrophic failure, my answer must be conditional. That said, the past 18 months have seen plenty of the spirited driving that my rather remote highway conditions allow, without any coolant leakage or loss whatsoever. The S-Type still looks pristine; looks and smells as new! Keep in mind that I replaced all hoses and pipe fittings at the same time and re-emphasize the importance of replacing the rear pedestal O-ring that, in most cases, will not be supplied with new part . . . but costs next to nothing at your local auto parts shop.

Second . . . What can I report from work on these other vehicles?
I have not worked on the TTD XJ Jag, the relevant Peugeot, nor even seen the Citroen installation. The S-Type Jag, by virtue of being shoe-horned into its engine bay with only finger room from engine to radiator, is challenging even with special spanners and super long sets of pliers. The LR Disco is nearly as tough. By comparison, the Ford Territory could accommodate a footy team in the space around front of engine and and you can actually see hoses and this part as soon as you lift the bonnet . . . and bend over, with a torch . . . and work out from my previous thread, where to peer. Fortunately, my next job (scheduled for tomorrow) is another Territory, so my knuckles feel somewhat safe!

Third . . . Is there any chance of binding up this part while in situ?
Short answer is “No”. I suspect the issue is “Can you avoid the need to remove so much of the induction system”, to which a long answer (especially S-Type) is . . . “Hahaha; first you gotta find it! And the answer is still NO!”

Fourth . . . Is there anything you would add or modify in your fix?
Yes. For some strange reason, many parts suppliers list this part (Jaguar part# JDE38234; Land Rover LR073372 etc) with wording that states or implies that it is a “thermostat housing”. It is NOT! It is the coolant outlet fitting, but you may need to use the incorrect wording to locate online. The thermostat is located quite separately and remotely on ALL these vehicles. You can proceed with reassurance just by the images, because all plastic units I have seen all show identical manufacturing marks, and they all exhibit bosses for bolts that were never drilled and fitted.

Next, while a key element of the solution offered is to bind the new part with long MAXI cable ties, which are twice as wide as normal ties, I should have paid more emphasis on how to fix them. Pics show where, but not how. The inner 'cogged' face should be coated with 2-part epoxy that, when pulled up tight with pliers, covers the latching pawl in epoxy also. Once cured (24 hrs), the cable tie is welded effectively around both parts of body, and no longer reliant on latch to maintain tension.

Fifth . . . Anything else to add?
Yes. Having suggested in (Part 1) thread that anyone seeking parts should search their local online suppliers, I am aware that sites and sellers come and go, so here are a couple of Aussie based sellers. The first, I have used on several occasions with excellent delivery times (even under difficult Covid conditions) but, as always, I have no commercial ties with any so you must make your own enquiries . . .

. . . Seller located in Regents Park, NSW @ AU$39.99 <link #1 to eBay>
. . . Seller located in Sydney, NSW @ AU$35.00 <link #2 to eBay>
. . . Seller located inNSW @ AU$33.25 <link #3 to eBay>

Having referred to the South Australian producer of the billet alloy replacement for the OEM plastic component, I note the price rise from AU$600 to AU$655 and repeat the caveat that, as I have no relationship with this supplier, you must make your own enquiries. That said, the workmanship looks exquisite and there are a bunch of bolted fixings around the perimeter as the plastic part perhaps intended, but which someone decided to replace with monkey snot. Here is the link . . . <https://triumphroverspares.com.au/product/water-outlet/>

I hope this update convinces other owners of Jaguar models with these fine engines, that a fix is warranted to protect them. If you have comments, ideas or questions, please fire away and I will try to respond.

Cheers,

 

To all our Jaguar diesel members, can I give a big shout out to cat_as_trophy. Australia maybe a big country/continent but it's population is small and the number of Jaguar owners very small and diesel Jaguar owners even smaller. I reached out to cat_as_trophy as my 2008 XF 2.7L which I've had since new is obviously getting older and there have been a lot of recent discussions across all forums about cooling system issues but I couldn't find much about diesels until I stumbled across Ken. His help and advice in the past week or so since I PM'd him about cooling system issues has been amazing and especially in regard to this particular issue in this thread as he says is a potentially ticking time bomb. I take my XF on incredibly long drives of several thousand kilometres way, way beyond any garage and even more beyond any Jaguar servicing agent. I never knew as a non-technical person that the coolant outlet fitting had this weakness of only being joined together with glue only and that if it comes apart as described in Part 1 of this post you will have a total coolant loss and catostophic engine failure. I'm heading out in October on an 8,000km (5,000 mile) trip from Melbourne to Northern Queensland and I'm feeling very reassured by having this issue fixed thanks to Ken.

Apart from this my 2.7litre diesel has given me 90,000km of absolute fault free running. The long cruise type trips that I undertake are totally effortless and the engine provides ample power when needed for overtaking etc. Some years ago when it existed there was a piece of highway in central Australia that had no speed limit for around 500km and I was able to take my XF and run it up to 180km/hr to 200km/hr for extended periods. It was a great experience and confirmed that the XF disel was and is a magnificent machine but know I'm totally biased!!

 

Thanks for your kind comments Graeme.
Very happy to help, and that ethos goes to the real value of these forums.

I recall a combined Jaguar Forums NSW & QLD meet and display that we held at Ballina some years ago. Heaps of beautiful Jaguars on show, lots of public interest, and one of our members drove 3,500Km for our weekend event! My long mileages started with my career of driving to all the smaller NSW country hospitals, in the Mk1 shown in my avatar. That was in 1969 when, totally rebuilt with a much modified XK engine, after a tree fall in a record snowfall in the Blue Mountains, I relied on it for almost 250,000 miles over the next four years.

Those glorious pics of your exquisite XF make what we share here, so worthwhile.

Cheers,

 

Again, massive thank you to Mr Cat_as_Trophy for an excellent write up, even if you did now induce a massive dose of paranoia until I can get mine into service, which it is fortunately due. At 8 years old and only 40K I'm thinking it's due for a cam belt so I'll get it all done at the same time. Mine is now starting to do some country miles as well, I'll remember to wave next time I pass on the way to Tenterfield but the thought of that blowing north of Armidale is scary.
I'm a bit curious though, you mentioned that the bosses are there but not drilled, is there any reason why you didn't drill them and add some bolts as well as the tywraps?
Thanks again

 

I own a 2.7 V6 engine within a Citroen C5 tourer. Within a week of buying the car (it had done 85,000km) the housing cracked catastrophically and were it not for being in the right place at the right time, I would still be in tears now! I went looking for every available source for a replacement. The most excellent unit you mentioned was available at the time but the cost was more than I could afford so I bought a "strengthened upgraded" generic and it's been fine for the last 15000km. Cost to me was just over $100 including freight and the amazing thing to me was how many and varied the purchase options were.

 

Just an update on my post regarding the changeout of the moulded plastic coolant outlet unit and its replacement with a stainless unit made in South Australia. I had planned to do this last October in preparation for and 8,000km/5,000 mile road trip but had to postpone it.

In early January my independent but fully accredited Jaguar servicing agent ordered the new unit which arrived last week and was nstalled on Friday in association with a 90,000km regular service.

The new stainless steel unit cost $AUS 650.00 and including its installation and the 90,000km service the total cost was $1,420. I've enclosed a photo of the stainless steal replacement. Quite frankly for someone like me who sees my Jaguar XF as a long term collectors item, to get the new unit and the regular service for that amount of money is quite frankly pretty good value. On the day Herb with over 40 years experience servicing Jaguars, showed me another unit he had replaced on a vehicle that had seen the moulded plastic unit split at the seam and I was staggered at how the whole system relies on a relatively tiny bead of glue to join the two halves together. The owner of that car had a new OEM plastic unit installed but with the addition of cable ties outlined earlier that were also glued to provide the additional strength. They were so lucky they did not incur any damage to the engine.

So this weekend my XF which is running absolutely perfectly will get underway on its 8,000km/5,000m road trip to Queensland and New South Wales and I will have total peace of mind that with the new housing plus the thoroughness that Herb goes to with his servicing, I should have an amazing trip just like I always have with this magnificent car.

 

Just a quick update. Arrived in Cloncurry today 2,500km from home and the car is running perfectly. Fuel consumption is 6,2L/100km and onlt 5,500km to run. Temperaturres up in the high 30's so probably 40 c on the road.

 

It is now more than 3 years since this critical issue was first raised and solutions, with pictures, shared in the following thread . . .

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/d...system-246539/

Various updates were posted via this thread, including the excellent alternate and enduring solution offered in posts by [GeeVeeXF]. Graeme's is a more elegant solution than mine, but each of us (and others) believe it is time for . . .

• a longer term update, as it is 18 months since the previous update, and all fixes have been subjected to some exhaustive road miles to prove their reliability compared to the poorly designed and engineered OEM plastic engine coolant outlet;

• an appeal to our Moderators via [GGG] to post both these threads into the Diesel Stickies as a timely warning and proven solutions to a failure than may well prove catastrophic.

OK; for my part, I had used my fix on 5 vehicles that use this engine and this outlet, during much of 2021, as follows . . .

• 2.7L TTD Jaguar S-Type (my own - following massive coolant loss)
  
• 2.7L TTD Jaguar S-Type (local friend - preventative)
  
• 3.0L TTD Jaguar XF (another friend – preventative)
  
• 2.7L TD LandRover Discovery (friend - following massive coolant loss)
  
• 2.7L TD Ford Territory (neighbour – preventative)

I can speak for all 5 over the 2 to 3 years since their fix using the plastic replacement (<$50) but with this reinforced by expoxied maxi-ties. All have reported not a single 'drip' of a problem, let alone catastrophic failure such as I and the Disco owner experienced.

Why not drill and use the bolt bosses?

This was a question which I had considered, but rejected because such holes would have passed horribly close to the very thin ribbon of glue line that acts as both sealant and glue . . . until it fails!

The epoxied maxi-ties are doing their job of restraining any 'burst pressure' that otherwise forces the two halves of the outlet apart.

Having PM'd Graeme [GeeVeeXF], I will leave him to recount his adventures since effecting his solution as a prevetative investment. I stand by his solution being more elegant and favourable, and will ask him to share his supplier here . . . Like him, my 'as new' 2007 TTD S-Type is a forever keeper, and I wish to follow his lead in getting that stainless steel part for mine also.

I hope that these timely warnings help preserve your vehicle. With this powertrain and suspension, these Jaguars are some of the best tourers of the modern era (albeit near 20 years of age), but with increasing scarcity, failure of a suddenly overheated engine could render the car worthless. It seems really important to us that we guard against that happening.

Cheers and best wishes,

 

Thanks cat_as_trophy (Ken). I'm certainly very happy to post an update on how my XF has performed since I had the engine coolant outlet replaced from the OEM fitted glued plastic unit to the stainless steel unit which there was a photo of in this thread above. As I mentioned previously the part was pricey at $AED655 but I had the changeover done at the sametime as the cars 90,000km service which meant that in total the overall cost was very, very reasonable.

So that was all done 18 months ago and since then I've undertaken a number of very long motoring trips. The biggest test was Melbourne, Victoria to Karumba, Queensland on the Gulf of Carpentaria some 3,200 km to the north. With some deviations to visit friends and see some attractions along the way the overall round trip was 8,500km and the longest single daily drive of continuous motoring was just short of 1,300km. Hottest day around 45 degees C so a road surface temperature in the 55 plus degrees C. Even with the air-con on to maintain around 21/22 degrees in the cabin the fuel consumption was 6.2L/100km. Driving conditions even though there are sealed roads all the way is highly varied with many hundreds of kilometres of just single strip bitumen. The car performed faultlessly and my servicing agent gave the car a thorough going after on my return and advised there were no leaks. What was a major plus for me was that I was driving a very well maintained car with the added reassurance that the cooling system in particular was not going to let me down. If you do a Google maps search of the route above you'll see its through very remote country with extremely limited access to garages and workshops with road signs in Queensland advising fuel stops can be up to 150 km apart.

I think the above example says it all as to why I would strongly recommend getting the engine coolant outlet fitting upgraded as per cat_as_trophy (Ken)'s approach or if like me your Jaguar is a for life car then consider the stainless unit.

GeeVeeXF

 

Great update Graeme. Delighted that your touring was uneventful, but can you update us with supplier details for the s/s outlet that you used?

I was amused by our first UK visit of an "interesting 40 mile day tour of the Lakes District" when compared to our similar 1,400Km in one day over the Nullabor to WA (over 4,600Km in 4.5 days from Sydney to Perth via Adelaide) before enforced speed limits or aerial police, and being overtaken by a B-double transporter despite our 130Kph. We loved every minute of day trips around beautiful parts of England and other trips in later years absorbing our family's Scottish and Welsh heritage in those parts also . . . although we astonished our hosts on the Black Isle (near Inverness) with our days planned around pre-fawn drives to the opposite side of the country and evening Braveheart pizzas at Drumnadrochit, by Loch Ness.

Hence, the broad horizons of our backyard here are a new dimension for many visitors, Certainly, our Jaguar touring across big sky outback Oz is a wondrous experience. Long may it continue. BTW, your frugal fuel consumption sounds typical for our country driving . . . with 6L/100Km equating to about 48mpg (UK) or 40mpg (USA).

Cheers mate.

 

Just few tips for better life cycle of plastic parts on coolant systems. (any vehicle)
Do not overfill the system. Air cap in resevoir are there for reason. Air in resevoir are buffer to squeese when system get hot and water expans. Less air to squeese equals higher pressure. Higher pressure stress every seam.
Do change your coolant min 5 years interval. Coolant fluid loses its specks in time, speciality ability to lubricate waterpump seal.
With these i still have all original parts, including water pump, on my 2010 3.0l diesel XJ after 316 000 km on odometer.

Cheers

 

Hi Ken, Very happy to supply details of the supplier of the stainless steel outlet. Its through a company called Triumph Rover Spares.

Their web address is https://triumphroverspares.com.au/product/water-outlet/

And guess what the outlet price has been reduced from $AUD655 to $AUD550 - pardon the pun but I'd call that a real steel!!!

I note that they deliver overseas so there maybe other diesel owners overseas that might be interested. Note the part is suitable for both the 2.7L and 3.0L engines!!

Whilst at it I thought owners of the early model XF's may like to know that you can also get woven stainless steel mesh front grill and lower air intake inserts. I had these done just on 12 months ago and whilst only cosmetic they do set the car apart.


Stainless steel grill and air intake inserts repacing plastic


Cheers
GeeVeeXF

 

Thanks Graeme,

Excellent upgrades and brilliant pics. I love the s/s grille.
How you manage to keep that front paintwork so pristine after all your country touring, is commendable. Very, very nice carriage!

Best wishes,