Hey guys,

So I'm looking to add an xke coupe to my garage within the next few months but wanted some clarity from people who actually own them.

I know cars like these are steeped in lore and myth but I wanted to know the educated opinions on the differences between the Series I 4.2 and the Series II
1) the series IIs I've seen are priced significantly less than similarly well kept Series Is and seem much easier to find.
2) does the lesser power of the series II really detract from the famed xke driving experience? (Ive driven a series II but not a series I. It was an absolute blast)
3) I'd be using it as a (well, not daily) but semi frequent driver. I've heard the series II is easier to live with in day-to-day city conditions. What's your guys' opinions on this?

If this was a car I wasn't planning on having for a very long time, I'd buy a Series II in a heartbeat because they're just way cheaper than all the Series Is I've seen, but there's something really appealing about having the original series xke. Plus I prefer the styling of the headlights and taillights on the series I more. Just perfect.

Anyway, thanks guys!

 

I'm not an E-Type authority so let's hope others chime in as well.

As for power my limited experience is that the power difference isn't felt unless you drive hard and/or are in the upper RPM ranges. In mild or moderate driving it probably wouldn't be felt much. I think the USA market Ser IIs had shorter gearing than most Ser Is so acceleration doesn't suffer much, at least below 60 mph or so.

I think the improved cooling system is the primary difference that makes the Ser II "easier to live with"....along with the availability of A/C and P/steering, althought not many cars had the latter as I understand.

I think the early Ser I cars ...the 3.8L cars....might be considered the least easiest to live with thanks to the less comfortable seats, older non-synchro trans, weak brake booster etc. The 4.2 came out in late '64 and had a number of improvements.

You'll probably find that many Ser Is have received some upgrades and improvements to improve the livability and reliabilty factors.

As you say there's usually quite a price difference. If the Ser II styling changes don't bother you then you can save a ton of money and still enjoy the E-Type driving experience.

Cheers
DD



PS- I remember racing on Mulholland Drive as a kid . Crazy days. I'm lucky to have survived.

 

I would echo Doug's remarks - right on target.

Also, by now, any performance differences between specific S1 and S2 examples could be "historical". It's all dependent on a specific car's mechanical history - these are all getting old enough that it is conceivable that a "good" S2 would be able to easily blow off a "bad" S1 (think of over-lapping bell curves!).

So it's mostly a matter of "good looks" - and there the market has spoken, hence $S1>>$S2. Sitting in the driver's seat and looking out over that loooong schnozz, the experience may not be all that different between the two generations (unless one has a toggle switch fetish). Any sweetly running E-Type is a good E-Type (as long as one dodges the rust demons).

 

Dear MHM

You follow in some pretty famous foot steps, namely Steve McQueen, who used to take his XK SS into those hills and race all night and then find a quiet spot to use his sleeping roll that replaced the top on the Jaguar.

There are as many opinions as serial numbers of E-types, but here is my take.

The 3.8 E-type was made from 1961-1964 with the first few cars having flat floors and side key lock Bonnets. These cars were all positive earth generator examples with true non articulating bucket seat. These are the lightest and probably the best performing due to their light weight and basic design. Purists tend to like these the best.

In 1965 the Alternator and the 4.2 liter engine made their debut along with a more comfortable and modern seat. Jaguar had now synced up with the rest of the world by moving to an alternator and negative earth (ground for most Americans). Lots of other technical improvements found their way into the chassis including a better radiator and header tank. The horsepower remained the same listed at 265, but was still mostly a bit optimistic. The 1966 model saw the range expanded to include the 2+2 "steep screen" with a lengthened wheel base and 2 extra seats. This would come back to haunt us as the basis for the V-12 coupe and roadster because of the overproduced and underutilized floor plans.

These cars are known in most literature as Series 1 cars and ran from 1965 until 1967 with the stylish but maddening covered lens disappearing mid year 1967. Fog and or rain left you the driver with diminished visibility and sever tardiness if this was your primary driver in all weather.

The 1968 big transition year saw quite a few changes to the body, interior and running gear. Sadly emissions concerns had brought about the end of the three carb engine and ushered in the Stromberg era, lower horsepower and beginning of the plumping process that would continue until the E-types passing. Complicated and as it turns out useless emissions piping over the cam covers made their debut. A new dash with the now familiar rocker switch gear that replaced the Lucas blade type.

The full Series 2 car had new front and rear bumpers and lights and was visually distinctive from the "1 1/2" car just a year earlier. Better Girling brakes and new dual electric cooling fans made this version the best daily driver so far. The Dunlop SP41 radial also made this car a delight to drive with speed and confidence. Air Con made it as an option even in the OTS cars. With a Ferrari Daytona at 25,000 USD, an E-type was a true bargain on pace at 1/5 th the price.

The Series 3 V-12 Coupe and Roadster was to be the final version of this truly inspired British Phenomenon. With the marriage of the 2+2 floor pan , a new wider sub-frame and the V 12 engine that was designed for the new XJ range, The E-type had become bloated and while visually similar to it's earlier cousins, had lost it's edge and could hardly match the times of the 3.8 liter with a 5.3 liter and a better power to weight ratio. The prices for the V-12 car reflect their lower desirability with new buyers as they discover the value of this milestone design today.

The most widely quoted production figure is 72,534 cars produced over 13 short years. The motorcar that Enzo Ferrari is quoted as saying was the most beautiful car ever designed. Just squint at a 1966 275 GTB and you might see some very familiar lines.

 

Greetings from down under. Good advice all round. So much of this discussion is subjective - but shows exactly why these forums are so valued. You get to speak to people who actually own/maintain/repair/restore/swear at and love the car you are interested in eloping with.

Last month, my 1964 S1 left home for new owners who intend a total strip and restoration - "concours condition" in Australia is highly prized, seldom realized, and comes only to those with very deep pockets. As second owners, our love affair with this car spanned more than 30 years, during most of which we owned several other Jags and shared experiences with many other E owners. So, in the great S1 vs S2 debate (interesting you don't mention the equally delicious S1a), I am honest in admitting my bias - but also in admitting that others will have differing priorities. My starting point has not shifted from the late 70s when I first started researching the E Type variants. We were fortunate that Aus delivered cars were the UK spec rather than the US versions.

Weight vs Engine - remember that this is a sports car that grew and grew until the last S3 was taller, longer, and 50% heavier than its S1 origins. But don't blame the V12 engine - paradoxically, the raw allow block V12 engine weighs less than the cast iron block XK engine in all Es prior to S3. But all the bloat had started beyond the S1. True, the S2 had improved cooling, but my E acqired a high performance radiator re-core and revised header tank very early that ensured that even living 40+C/105+F around Mildura and Hay Plains (read Arizona desert country) we never experienced any issues whatsover. The US spec cars had already started to gain weight and strangulation by the S2. More weight and less power was not a drawcard for me.

Brakes - was it Enzo who famous defended Ferrari's fading stoppers by saying "My goal is to make fast cars ... Any fool can make them go slow!". There are now many S1 and S2 cars that have been retrofitted with ventilated discs from later models. We never saw a need - even when avoiding the hoons who scream to overtake, then park back on your bonnet to perve.

Our alternate strategy for brakes was fourfold (1) totally overhaul the master cylinder; ours needing a sleeve to overcome pitting early in life (2) ditto the caliper pots and ensure perfect rotors with high performance friction pads (3) replace flex hoses with modern maxi pressure ones, and lastly and too often neglected (4) replace every drop of brake fluid every year - even if you think it doesn't need it.

Air - for human occupants, is now a desired example of the creature comforts the E became increasingly burdened with. Desirable? Of course. But my choice (and never regretted) was to avoid it and all the other added bloatware in seeking the pure package of sexy looks and performance. My wife's memorable comment on this many years ago to a friend was "You want air ... Wind the window down ... But check the speed first because 140mph can ruin your hairstyle." The true story behind this on a western NSW highway was exhilarating!

Body shape and Style - the final and killer factor for us was going to a national club display meet. No doubt the bumpers, lights etc of the S2 had US inspired merits for the thousands of pedestrians being massacred on US streets (ha ha), and there are gorgeous S1a, S2 and S3 variants that I slavver over. But, and I hope you can do what we did - check them all out side by side.

Final advice - research, research, research - and you are to be congratulated for doing so. There are some excellent resources here on these forums. Seek our Skilleter's excellent book on the E. Hard cover, expensive, but authoritative and the best initial investment you will make prior to the big one.

Perhaps, again like us, you will find the sleek, low lines of the S1 with triple wipers, sleek low rear end and fully faired and glassed lights will weave the very special spell on you that is obvious among the crowds at these meets, in the auction houses, and every time you take it out on the road. Please let us know how you proceed - tickled pink in hoping I can answer any more specific questions you have. Maybe we should gloss over some of our really fast drives - the worst feature of any E is seeing a friend's collapsed chrome wire wheel. Ugggh!! Best wishes.

 

Ha ! Just being able to afford any E-type would be good enough for me, (except the early 2+2s which are truly ugly) !!

I think you would be happy with any E-type, but clearly a roadster has it all, but will cost the most, and give you absolutely no boot space at all , just like the new F-type roadster !!

In the '70s my old friend ran three E-types, starting with a Series 1 1/2 Coupe, then had a Series 2 Roadster. Following purchase of an apartment the Roadster had to go, but he was soon back in one with another Coupe. The main thing I remember from that time is him taking the Coupe up to an indicated 140 mph over Bodmin Moor on the A30. He said the front end got a bit light at that speed. Me, I nearly laid a pile in my pants !!

Sorry, I haven't given you any really useful information !! Main thing with the E-type is that they were built down to a price and being 60s/70s cars they are very prone to rust. This rust does not just occur in the body shell where it can be bad enough, but in the tubular front engine frames made from Reynolds 531 steel, and bronze-welded together. These can rot terribly and be unnoticed, yet they hold the engine and front suspension, because there is no body shell metal forward of the bulkhead apart from the sill extensions. The bonnet is huge, (about 1/3rd of the car), but not structural in any way. Rear suspension is the familiar Jaguar independent suspension on a sub-frame isolated from the car by rubber mounts and radius arms. Rebuilds easy but expensive.

Bodyshells were made by a small supplier, not one of the big boys so no body-shell is exactly the same. Body-lead was used to hide this. For instance many folks have rebuilt the shell to find the rear bumper blades won't fit properly. There is nothing wrong with the blades, but the panel they fit onto was leaded to make the profile if it was slightly out. For spares you can get almost everything and can almost assemble a car from spare parts !! So no worries about keeping one on the road, but you'll need a full wallet.

 

Sorry folks ... just learned that Paul Skilleter's book I recommended is out of print. What a pity - the ideal DIY companion - saved time, cash and made upkeep of our E Type enjoyable ... eBay?

Yes, Fraser, E Types are expensive, but have been for many years. In Oz anyway, secondhand prices were modest only once replaced by new models. Values rose rapidly once Jaguar failed to market a true sports car replacement. I would not be alone in suggesting that much of the mystique of the E was not only that it had no affordable peers in the decade before its debut, none (imho) during the decade it was produced, but also little of note in the decade following. We spent about 12 years having made our choice, and enjoying a succession of Jag saloons, but never an XK until careers and finance got us our pristine, superbly maintained and documented S1 in 1982 - for a price that was exactly half what we paid for our modest country Victorian home - also in 1982.

10/10 also Fraser, for pointing out the E Type weakness of metal cancer - doors, sills, coupe hatch, rear numberplate area, wheel well, floor wells, and even headlight nacelles, must be inspected and maintained. But ... and it's a huge BUT ... we can reassure our OP mulhollandmaster that this was never a killer issue in the warm dry climates that we share in US west and south west and much of Australia - provided the car does not live outdoors at the seaside! Best advice ... ensure your car was a new car local delivery, and not a later import that may have spent destructive winters in ice, snow and slushy salted roads. Zoom into the attached pic of our S1 as it leaves home for the final time to friends and new owners, and you will note ripples starting to appear in and around the door - but in a car that has never been accident damaged, never restored or even resprayed, it approaches its 50th birthday in remarkable style. Even so, the new owners plan a total ground-up strip and rebuild to achieve true concourse condition that she deserves.

This brings me to a too often neglected topic - detailed provenance. This is far more than just owner & service manuals, and a haphazard collection of receipts. Our S1 came with a bulging folder of documents, much of it assembled by the local Jaguar agents Brysons at the request of the first owner whom we were able to contact, who added even more photos, stories and memorabilia and confirm we were the second owners. Over more than 30 years, we were able to dig out even more details and documents from Jaguar at Browns Lane and Australian distributors - then build the lot into a sequential, uninterrupted narrative. While respecting the privacy of her new owners, I can state that this provenance formed a sizable premium that was negotiated as part of the recent sale.

Mulhollandmaster, I sense you teetering on the brink ... Take 3 deep breaths; accept the initial pain of the price premium, and I encourage you to go with your heart. She will return the love tenfold every time you punch that starter button ... Clutch; slot into 2nd; ease away at 1500 rpm ... now push hard and 50 yards of road disappears as the long bonnet leaps up ... 4000 rpm; lift briefly; stick over into 4th; full throttle; and then back off as our Abarth free flow exhaust comes on song ... 70 to 100 mph is like a rocket ride. Yes, it's a 4speed but this is sooo impressive. So is downshifting to 3rd at 110 mph, and still having bonnet snapping acceleration.

Just reliving it is exhilarating ... Now, I'll have to get my medication and lie down for a while ha ha ha
Remember ... If you don't get it ... you won't get it!

 

Most would agree that the 2+2 styling.....um.....er....didn't come off all that well


However......


I have seen a couple 2+2s with the wider center-laced wheels and slightly wider tires. This change alone does wonders for the overall appearance, taking away much of the "too tall and spindly" look.

A 2+2 is a much less expensive way to step into the E-Type experience....and if a change of wheels/tires can make the looks palatable, well....... hmmm....

Cheers
DD

 

Hi Doug

Yes the fancy-pants wheels could take one's eye off the ghastly cockpit style of early 2+2s !! For these early cars, the body shell wasn't altered much so the screen is very upright (as per the coupe and roadster), but the ballooning of the cockpit to get the rear seats in results in a totally wrong line. Jaguar were always very penny-pinching, no doubt because Sir William Lyons had a good Lancashire up-bringing !

The later 2+2 had the shell modifications so the windscreen is much less upright, so looks pretty good.