I recently posted about my December purchase of a 2017 F-Pace S with 125,000km and subsequent catastrophic failure after only a week due to overheating caused by the deterioration of plastic cross over pipes under the supercharger. The vehicle was purchased privately so no recourse there. Before purchasing though, I had the vehicle thoroughly checked out by a Jaguar dealer, who says these things can easily happen without being detected beforehand. They also indicated that since the vehicle is out of warranty Jaguar is not likely to do much if anything.
There was no real warning that this was happening until it was too late. The heat gauge went from reading narmal to overheated in about 2 seconds and then it was too late. The dealer has indicated that it's 99% likely the engine is done which would mean $20-$25k to replace the engine. Since this event occured I have learned that this is a common issue with this vehicle. Constant hot and cold causes these plactic pipes to expand and contract and eventually break (around the five year mark), which is unfortunately what happened to me. The heat guage not providing proper information is apparently a known issue as well on this vehicle.
It seems that manufacturers of high end vehicles are not being held accountable for building vehicles that are destined to have major failures just outside of the warranty period. This situation appears to be very common and known to Jaguar which brings me to the reason for this post. I realize I am stepping out on a limb here but I am asking F-Pace owners that have experienced anything like this to reply or if preferred, to direct message me if confidentiality is important. This would be specifically for North America but it would be important to hear from anyone, anywhere in the world that has experienced these things. At this point it is necessary to understand how widespread this may be in order to determine the best course of action.

Thank you for your participation. Peter

 

I don't understand WTH the manufacturer of "high end" cars, would use MULTI PIECE plastic coolant pipes in a motor vehicle.....ESPECIALLY when these pipes are in extremely difficult places to access, therefore not something you'd simply replace every 3-4 years, "just in case".

 

Further to my initial information. After much digging I was able to send a letter which was received by Jaguar North America and today I received an email and call from an Executive Liaison. The end result of the call was that Jaguar is not willing to assist because the vehicle is 2017 and out of warranty. The reason they gave was that if there was a manufacturers defect it would have shown up during the warranty period. I explained that the cross over pipes which are a type of plastic could outlast the warranty period but when failure happens it is catastropic. The manufacturer tried to save a few bucks using plastic where they shouldn't have. This means they knew full well what the result would be to the customer over a short amount of time, or they were just negligent. Either way they made serious mistakes that have cost, and will cost many Jag owners a signficant amount of money. I am now faced with either selling it as is, or paying an incredible amount of money first and then selling it. I feel awful for the many other unsuspecting F-Pace owners who have this nightmare to deal with in the near term.

I had thought I would have heard from more F-PACE owers about their experiences this way. Peter

 

Peter -
I bought a '17 F-Pace a couple of years ago, and had no real issues for some time. A few weeks ago, we began to see low coolant warnings, which gradually required more and more replacement coolant. I finally decided to examine the problem, and decided to replace the water pump. Once installed, I fired up the engine, only to find an even greater leakage (which was obviously a problem.) After some more extensive research I discovered that the crossover pipe (or "Y" pipe as some refer to it) is a regular culprit in these issues with the 3.0 l Jaguar V6. The corporation even recognized the issue because they "redesigned" the part. Of course, they made it out of the same junk plastic that the old one was fabricated with, so that is disappointing. (Penny-pinching accountants at Jaguar 1 - Jaguar owners - 0).
I found some aluminum replacements and after removing the supercharger (no quick job, BTW), the new items fit very well, and won't fail as the plastic ones are expected to do. Luckily, I located the problem before it damaged the powerplant.
It seems like you might be too late for that, but you might consider consulting an attorney to address the "inspection" done by the Jaguar dealership you mentioned (esp. since Jaguar has known about this issue for some time, given their redesign efforts). That is one of the common service issues with the F-Pace and all 3.0 supercharged Jaguar/LR cars out there. They know that, and ought to answer for it. One other observation - you might take the car to a trusted mechanic who handles JLR vehicles instead of to a dealer, as they might have better options than a wholesale engine replacement (the dealers are very eager to replace things rather than seek other possible options - they will also use the OEM parts that are still plastic!!)
Anyway, good luck with our car - it is a very nice automobile outside of this technical flaw.
- S.J.
Massachusetts

 

Sorry to hear about your issues. Unfortunately this isn't a Jag specific issue. Pretty much every manufacturer uses plastic all over the cooling system and engine parts. And yes - over time they can go brittle and leak / crack
The warranty covers manufacturing issues. But you are well outside of warranty and this is considered a wear item in modern engines

Did you pull over and stop the engine as soon as the overheating came on? If so, then you should be ok. But if you kept driving even for a few minutes then the heat that builds up probably warped the engine head and can cause severe engine damage

I would have an independent trusted mechanic assess the state of the engine and the extent to which it can be repaired. New engines are v expensive but yours already had 125000 km on it so a used one from a breakers could be a good option and much cheaper

Sadly I would guess there was a leak and the car was losing coolant - so the previous owner sold without telling you. An inspection won't spot that as most of the pipes are hidden away and a leak is hard to see. So your recourse is really with the seller, not jag. But if you bought private I'm guessing it was 'as-is'. That's the risk of a private sale

Id start by understanding whether the engine is badly damaged or repairable and go from there.

And / to the other poster who said they had to keep topping up their car with coolant. A warning - if it's leaking any coolant at all - don't drive it!! A tiny leak can split into a significant dump of coolant and wreck the engine. That early warning of a small leak is your chance to fix it!!

 

Thank you for your reponse. I can understsnd what you saying about being outside of warranty, but there is expectation that any vehicle, especially a so called quality manufactured one will last beyond the warranty. Certainly 5 years and only 125km is not old or overdiven by any measure. I am not aware that these plastic coolant pipes are considered regular wear items. It may be so that many manufacturers have used plastic where they shouldn't but it does not make it right. I also understsnd about driving a vehicle that is overheating. The fact is there was no valid warning. The heat gauge went from normal to extreme high in a few seconds at which point I immediately pulled over but it was too late. As I wrote initially. Jaguar is
negligent and I would add reckless and careless. They need to be held accountable. Peter

 

I fully understand your point. I can guarantee that if the pipes should begin to leak, grossly, causing an overheating condition, if my wife happens to be driving, we can write off the car. She's a wonderful person, but NOT mechanically oriented, so unless big red flags pop up from the grill, saying "shut off car NOW", she'll simply keep driving until the engine stops. As I said, by that time, the car will be a write off, since a replacement engine is $$$$. The worst part, is that we have two Jags in the "family fleet", and they both have the supercharged V-6, therefore, they both have these plastic pipes.....

 

Had the heat guage provided any indication that the engine was heating up before it was too late then all this could have been avoided. I owned the vechcle for 5 days and now it will sit for months until I figure out what to do next. Meawhile, I pay for insurance and cost to carry purchase.

Incredible to know that Jaguar/Landrover of NA won't do anything. Why do people buy their vehicles. I mean really, there is so many reasons not to and yet people keep coming back.

Still would like to hear from others who have experienced similar issues.

Peter

 

Peter,
I have 2 Jags a 2017 F-Pace and a 2017 F-Type. The F-Type lower plastic outlet tube under the Supercharger failed last Summer at ~25,000 miles. Luckily it wasn't catastrophic and was a lot of steam and a little coolant leak, no overheating. I'd noted coolant reservoir level drop two weeks prior so got it pressure tested at the dealership. It passed their test and so they just topped it up. Two weeks later it failed. I was still under the 5yr 60k miles manufacturer warranty so it was taken on a flatbed and repaired using the uprated new design of upper and lower pipes together with some other coolant hoses per the TSB.

This past week, my F-Pace at 45,000 miles has had similar coolant loss and was down to the min mark of the reservoir after 8,000 miles. Inspection showed it's weeping from an inexpensive small flexible vent hose that connects the reservoir to the radiator and is easily replaced. I just picked up the part today and will write a post when done. Now I'm currently under the Certified Pre-Owned warranty so that vent hose failure is not covered as 'hoses' are excluded in the warranty booklet. However, if the large Lower Outlet Pipe were to fail it's a $2,400 bill if paying out of pocket. Surprisingly my dealership warranty advisor said (via the service advisor) that it wouldn't be covered under CPO which is in my opinion incorrect as it's not an excluded flexible 'hose' but a molded hard plastic 'outlet pipe'. If it fails during CPO coverage period I'll be sure to be having that discussion with them.

Sad to say that in your situation, it's going to very tough to get JLR to accept it's their problem since as they confirm the failure happened when it's out of warranty. That's their 'get out of jail' clause. If it was a safety issue (e.g. failure of a steering joint) then in association with the NHTSA they would have to issue a recall and complete replacement work regardless of whether in or out of warranty. Unfortunately this is not. I think if you were merely asking them to cover the coolant tube replacement there might be some 'goodwill' by JLR, but since it's actually a rather high mileage engine and as a result of the coolant loss now needs replacement, any concession on their part could set a precedence for others in a similar situation.

Manufacturers do have parts or systems that they find after years in service, weren't designed robustly enough in the first place to meet their reliability and quality standards for well past the basic warranty period. Many parts with Ford are designed for 100,000 miles. They will then redesign a replacement part to be used as a service item per instructions in TSB. Many parts with Ford are designed for 100,000 miles useful life.

I agree with you that in this case it appears shortsighted to design these parts using plastic heat welded joints when they sit in a high heat environment under the supercharger. As veteran of the automotive industry and having worked for a OEM (Not JLR) in Design and Development, it's a fact that cost constraints factor heavily in the design. In my experience at a minimum there were System Design and Testing specifications that had to be met. Probably these parts met JLR's extended durability mileage testing requirements but in reality those requirements probably weren't stringent enough as many owners started to find out after 5 years mark.

I will certainly be keeping a close eye on my F-Pace and will update you with any developments.

FYI - Attached photos of the vent hose and weeping joint that I'll be replacing.

Vent hose leaking at circled joint at 45,780 miles

Closeup of leaking vent hose connection/joint

 

What a great response. Thank you.

You nailed it here: "Probably these parts met JLR's extended durability mileage testing requirements but in reality those requirements probably weren't stringent enough as many owners started to find out after 5 years mark."

Peter

 

2017 Fpace S .(380HP) We have had a few coolant leaks but fortunately under the CPO 5 yr/60 mark. One was a big blow out and my wife pulled over right away, shut it down thinking it was on fire. Not sure what coolant hose/manifold let lose though. Believe it was crossover pipes on the back of the engine.. Would have to dig up the service records from them.

meanwhile right now at 6 year and 62k miles..i have what appears to be a Thermostat housing leak. Good luck finding this part!!

AJ814048

not in stock. Backordered with no resupply date available This the words of my local JLR dealer in Vegas!

Some one needs to manufacture a complete aluminum replacement kit for these cars.

 

Your wish has been granted: https://euro-amp.com/products/jaguar...charged-engine
Well not quite, the rear heater/manifold pipe has not yet been done in aluminium, apparently it is being worked on but is still some time off.

 

Thank you for that!!!!

 

What are the possibilities of an authorized Jaguar dealership installing the aluminum replacement parts, and providing any sort of guarantee? What happens if you have the engine torn down for the replacement, especially at a dealer's shop, and at that point find out that the part is "just a hair off", and aluminum can't be "flexed" into position?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for upgrading the parts to aluminum, but I'd be a bit cautious....

 

My dealer, on questioning, stated that they would willingly replace the OEM plastic with the aluminum versions, but could not be held responsible for defects in the manufacture of the replacements (and that is logical). Assuming proper fit, they would stand by the quality of their own work in installing.

To clarify regarding the Jaguar-redesigned pipes: the original pipes tend to leak at the seams (if they are going to leak - not all do). The redesigned pipes have NO seams. My dealer claims that they have seen no failures with the redesigned pipes, and in fact, few with the original pipes - but common sense suggests that pipes of the original design should be replaced proactively.

 

I'm very big on preventive maintenance, and if it wasn't SO difficult and involved (or expensive to have it done by the dealer), I would have replaced the pipes on our 7 year old XJ already, and the ones on the F-Pace in the next year or two......

 

Leadfoot what was the dealer going to charge for this?

 

I can't really say, as we didn't get into a serious enough conversation, that would actually quote the cost of doing the complete job. I do know that all the parts wouldn't be cheap, by themselves, and the shop labor rate is something like $120 USD/hour.

 

You should reasonably expect they charge you 4-5 hours, assuming dealer tech competency is equally bad across North America. The rear coolant crossover is ~$200 for the part, assuming you buy it from a wholesaling dealer like Harper Jaguar.

You will remove the supercharger to get it done at the dealer and probably most shops.

 

Interesting thread. When my 2017 F-pace R-sport was under warranty I told the dealer that I smelled antifreeze after every time I drove it. Every time they said they leak-checked the coolant system and found no problem. Now it's out of warranty, 43K miles and I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and replace all the items that others here have listed as problems. One reason I ask is I am about to embark on a road trip to Nashville and would hate to have a problem on the road. BTW, I have never had even a hint of a problem with this vehicle.
Thanks for all replies.