Hey guys,

I am going to check out a 2021 P380 R dynamic sometime this week and I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts on the contrast of the 380 vs 450 as far as driving dynamics. I currently own a 2019 C43 AMG coupe with a tune, so it should be quite a bit quicker than a stock P380's 4.9 0-60 and overall. Has anyone owned/driven the P380 and the P450 back to back? Does the power of the V8 show itself on the daily? What about the ~300 lb weight difference in handling dynamics? I actually prefer the look of the center twin-pipe exhaust over the also good looking quads of the P450. The P450s around me also go for quite a bit more price-wise (as they should...). I am just wondering (prior to me going to the dealer since that'll be the best butt dyno test) whether you think that I'll find the P380's performance unimpressive after driving my C43 (also AWD) for 3 years. From every video that I've watched online, the 2021 P380 still kept the crackles and pops of the exhaust while the P450 tuned them out. I am not leaning one way or the other on this, but wanted to see what the owners thought.

Thanks in advance!

 

I had the p450 in my XKR, I now have the p380 tuned to 450hp in my f type.

I think:
1. the p380 wont be enough hp for you, but can be easily and safely taken to 450hp which is a fantastic drive in the RWD F Type;
2. I think the tuned 6 (taken to 450hp) is a better drive than the XKR was, it always seemed too hard to control the power delivery whereas in the tuned 6 it is really linear and revs freely, super easy to control even when you are breaking traction;
3. i have found even the RWD noticeably heavier feeling in the front end than the 6, on a track at least. I found the AWD R's very much heavier in the front end;
4. so while it seems to me that the stock p380 will not be enough for you, if you are open to tuning then it sounds like the ticket. if you are not, I think you'd regret the p380.

 

Thanks for your elaborate reply, Bruce!

So I am looking at the P380 R-Dynamic AWD model. How easy is it to tune? From my search on here it seems that it's pretty much a Pulley upgrade and a Tune. I am no stranger to tuning. I had my 2013 BMW 335is tuned to a little over 500hp on my 25% e85 map. That was my favorite car that I've ever owned. the N54 engine was legendary and could handle all the power that you threw at it. I also miss the heavy steering that my C43 lacks and I am looking forward to testing out the F-type.

What pulley upgrade did you get and who is your tune by? Is it the same for the AWD as the RWD? I definitely like that you mentioned "safe" for the power upgrade since I only own 1 car and it's my daily.

Thanks again!

 

Viper,

I'm going to kick in another factor to consider, since you're planning on purchasing a new car. It's likely that tuning a P380 will void the new-car warranty. Just sayin....

I intentionally selected a R-Dynamic P380 over an R when I purchased my MY21 F-type. As a replacement for my previous daily driver, I didn't really need the extra power of the V8. And my past experience with AWD vehicles had admittedly biased me towards the equal front/back weight balance of the V6. FWIW, I'm not thinking about doing any re-tuning of my P380 until after the warranty expires (as in once-bitten, twice-shy).

And while I understand the reasoning behind the decision, I think it's unfortunate that Jaguar has dropped the AJ126 engine from the lineup. IMHO, it's one of the best V6's built.

 

Hey Eiger,

You are absolutely right about the warranty void scare. I had my BMW tuned to Stage 1 with only an ECU tune while on warranty and I always reset it to be invisible when taking it to the dealer. After my warranty expired, I upgraded the intercooler and installed downpipes, airbox, etc., and went Stage 2+. Since the 21/22 F-Types have a sweet 5 year/60k mile warranty, I would not want to jeopardize that in any way.

 

and continuing on the tuning aspect...u can't "reset" the ecu...dealership will know that it is/was tuned in the past.

 

Yeah I thought after my initial post that I should have mentioned the transmission in the f Type is a lot sharper than it was with the XKR, so maybe I'm not comparing apples with apples.

The 380 hp engine is a cracker and to be honest I never wanted more. I only had the pulley and tune done when I had it in having exhaust mods done, but having had it done it really does make for a much livelier car, and controllable delivery. usually with this kind of mod there is a drawback somewhere (other than warranty), eg lumpy transmission, but for me it was only improvement. Mine is the VAP pulley and tune which a lot of people have had done here, I've had no issues but I'd probably be reluctant to do it to a brand new car.

in reality the p380 is pretty quick but it isnt that often that you floor it from lights (never for me), it is more squirting quickly out of roundabouts and driving twisty roads. The 380 will be epic for that, maybe even better if you throw some loot at lightweight wheels, which really transform the cars.

 

I had no doubt that the updated 8-speed ZF would be quicker than the older 6-speed in the XKR. I've definitely heard great things about it and even saw someone do a VAP transmission ECU update for the F-type that improves the shift timing. Have you done that as well or perhaps know of others that have and is the consensus that it's safe and worthwhile of an upgrade? Does that 2021 P380 R-Dynamic have the AJ126 engine and is the VAP tune the same for the 2021 model year? I definitely wouldn't tune anything until the factory warranty expires. Just gathering data from those that paved the way, haha.

I am definitely looking forward to the handling aspect of the F type.

 

I havent done a transmission tune and really I dont know enough about them to try, then there was a massive barney in a thread about them and I figure if people who know what they are talking about cant agree, I'm not going there. I find generally that the car holds gears too long in sport (which I never use) but is snappier in dynamic (which I do use). Pre-tune I thought there was a little lag in the transmission, you can tap the accelerator and get a rev out of it without it translating to thrust, maybe it is designed that way for noisy goodness. Pretty much zero lag when using the paddles.

One thing I should add is that when you first get the car, the ride will feel a bit hard, but once you get about 5000 miles on it the seats soften up nicely and absorb the bumps. I drive mine in dynamic on 21's, the ride is still sublime for a sports car and only gets jittery on really bad roads at lowish speeds.

 

Same engine and same tune on the 2021 P380 as previous years, same 416 hp, just uses a different device since 2018 MY due to different OEM software, VFlash vs V-Tech, see here: https://www.velocityap.com/product/3...26-ecu-tuning/

 

I drove the V6 and the V8S back to back when I was still shopping and could definitely feel the extra weight in the nose of the V8. That was pre-AWD, and also pre-6MT. The V8 power is great, but weighing (pun intended) that against the heavier feel led me to try the V6S and I thought that was the sweet spot. When the going is straight the V8 is the winner, but I much prefer the twisty roads we have in abundance here. The V6S shines on those, although it's a GT and not really a sports car (too much weight).

It's great to have choices, isn't it?

 

Thanks for weighing in, haha. It's definitely great to have options (until 22 anyway...). So I guess I'd be looking at the last V6 of the F-Type. I'll report back with how it makes me feel but like you, I am more about the twisties, that's for sure!

 

"There is no replacement for displacement"
the V8 always has more options for tuning ( especially the 450 , less so with an SVR )
Depreciation is always going to be large , however a V8 is always going to be more special when everyone is driving around in electric cars driven by a food blender as an engine......
( the weight saving of a V6 to a V8 is alot smaller than you think when they both came from the same engine block )

 

I always found it weird that such a small weight saving is so noticeable, because there is a huge difference if you drive them on the track (RWD R vs RWD v6S), much moreso AWD R vs RWD V6S. The front end is so much more pointy in the 6. Could it be that the weight savings are in front of the front wheels, and that makes the benefit more pronounced?

 

Nup, the "blanked off" cylinders are the rear two, the front of the engine is largely unchanged from the V8 so the engine itself is weight biased towards the front.
I always wondered why the designers/engineers couldn't have blanked off the front two cylinders instead for better overall weight distribution but I suppose there must have been good engineering and/or cost reasons for doing it the way they did.

 

Older article from 2016 about the differences below. estimated 50 lbs savings between the v8 and v6.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ers-redundant/

 

I've done track days with my car (380, before tune) and with a AWD R (no tune). I have not been on a track with a RWD R. You can definitely tell the difference with the weight but the two cars drive differently. Those used to high revving low torque cars, that's similar to driving the P380 in that you want to be in the upper rpm's majority of the time. The R has that V8 torque so you can get away without being in the proper gear. That being said, on the street, highly unlikely you will notice anything but the V8 torque from acceleration. You cannot go wrong with either of them.

 

Obviously f-type 5.0 V8 way better.
Im sorry ... no V8 no F-type !

 

Others will say "no MT, no F-Type" so had to go for the V6.

 

There's no one absolute when it comes to a reason to get any type of car. I am in a manual wheelchair and can only drive auto, so here we are. I used to have a BMW 335is with a dual clutch, currently in a Benz C43 coupe and I am looking forward to testing out the 8-speed ZF for contrast. I am not against a 5.0 V8 but since at this point, I am only looking to buy a used 21/22 model, the V8s are a bit more than I'd like to spend. I will be checking out a 21 P380 probably tomorrow that's hovering around $78K nicely loaded.