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My 2017 car still has the rubbish seam welded crossover pipe. Maybe they were using up old stock?
No. the current OEM version of the rear crossover pipe is the same as the original version, meaning that the current JLR version still has the flanges. It is only the front pipes that were revised to eliminate the flanged seam.
Happily there are now metal versions availbale.
No. the current OEM version of the rear crossover pipe is the same as the original version, meaning that the current JLR version still has the flanges. It is only the front pipes that were revised to eliminate the flanged seam.
Happily there are now metal versions availbale.
Problem is different people use different words to describe the three main problematic pipes so sometimes it's not clear exactly which pipe they are referring to.
The one at the rear of the engine is sometimes called the "crossover pipe" when a better description is the heater (manifold) pipe, and the one on the top/front of the engine (in plain sight) is also often called the crossover pipe.
Then there is the one directly underneath and connected to the top crossover pipe, sitting under the SC, which is usually referred to as the "Y-pipe" but also sometimes called the crossover pipe.
For example I don't know which of these three pipes cbarr is referring to.
Maybe it's time we all agreed on a naming convention, my suggestion is:
Rear pipe = heater pipe.
Upper front pipe = crossover pipe
Lower front pipe = Y-pipe.
very good idea!
What do the well-known manufacturers of these aluminum aftermarket parts actually say about the problems with the o-rings?
Do the OEM o-rings from the plastic crossover+Y pipes fit the aluminum aftermarket crossover+Y pipes, or do you need completely different versions of o-rings?
Thanks for posting about the O-rings as I had just asked EuroAmp about that?
I was going to get Viton ones but wanted their input. He said to test fit the O-rings that came with the Aluminum pipes and if I was not satisfied they do sell O-rings separately.
As far as I can find the after market pipes use the same size O-rings as the factory plastic stuff? But I don't see that stated anywhere either?
The O-rings at the base of the "Y" pipe are AJ811350 about $6 each from Jaguar.
But what's real interesting is now RKX Tech who are the people selling the newly released metal rear water manifold (Note ONLY for the V-6 at this time!) are selling HNBR O-rings matching the Jaguar AJ811350 part number! So this tells me that BOTH the aftermarket Aluminum ones as well as the factory plastic pipes do use the same O-rings.
Expensive at $10 for 2 O-rings but cheaper than Jaguar and I think better material?
I still don't have the actual O-ring size either but still looking.
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Last edited by clubairth1; 02-06-2024 at 10:05 AM.
I'm glad you got a reply - I asked for a datasheet for the supplied O rings and never got a response. I'll follow up, I'm mostly curious about the materials science of the design choice as folks have mentioned the reality is that plastic (with unknown resin) has different thermal capabilities than aluminum. I'm assuming these are HPDC but I do not know for sure, they appear to have surface finish that meets that capability in diecasting.
I basically assumed that the O rings had been tested to OEM level testing (minimum 60k destructive, 100k+ mileage accelerated life) based on their confirmation they had used OEM equivalent rings, but those are not the same question.
If we're correcting verbiage, I'd also like to offer while there is a visible seam on the various coolant parts in their iterations, those are a parting line, and getting rid of the knit line/parting line or moving it to a less structurally impactful location sounds like the solution that Jaguar pursued. I'm also wondering what the deal was with their injection molding process at their supplier, it seems trivial these days to design a part that has enough wall thickness and technical properties that will maintain longer than a 30k mileage cycle.
Problem is different people use different words to describe the three main problematic pipes so sometimes it's not clear exactly which pipe they are referring to.
The one at the rear of the engine is sometimes called the "crossover pipe" when a better description is the heater (manifold) pipe, and the one on the top/front of the engine (in plain sight) is also often called the crossover pipe.
Then there is the one directly underneath and connected to the top crossover pipe, sitting under the SC, which is usually referred to as the "Y-pipe" but also sometimes called the crossover pipe.
For example I don't know which of these three pipes cbarr is referring to.
Maybe it's time we all agreed on a naming convention, my suggestion is:
Rear pipe = heater pipe.
Upper front pipe = crossover pipe
Lower front pipe = Y-pipe.
Good point. It was the heater pipe I was thinking of. If the RKX o-rings are the same as original, they need to be stretched 20% to fit, which is beyond the 5% tolerance recommended in many O-ring publications. Which seems at odds somehow.
I have received the RKX Tech Green O-Rings. These O-Rings have several part numbers too but appear to be all the same O-ring?
Jaguar AJ811350 and Land Rover LR010800. I still can't find the real size so not sure what they use?
I have tried to measure them but with rubber it's a bit of a guess?
The ones on the "Y" pipe from EuroAmp are red/black and appear to be the same or at least very close to the same as the green ones from RKX.
O-Ring Thickness;
Red/Black = .118"
Green=.118"
Inner O-ring ID:
Red/Black = 1.09"
Green = 1.05"
Note I do get a "slight" difference in ID and the green ones are just a bit tighter to install. Can't say if one's better than the other?
Still undecided whether to use the green O-rings but I did pay extra for them so maybe I will?
Laying one on top of the other it's hard to see much difference?
I can see a bit of green in the picture but the camera angle is partly to blame.
Here is the machined O-Ring grove in the "Y" pipe. It looks well done.
O-Ring groove width = .140" and the O-Ring groove inner diameter was 1.118".
I think either one should work but there was a reason RKX went to the added effort to release these in HNBR so there had to be some demand?
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My educated but no expert guess .... and that's all it is .... the aluminum pipes aren't fit for purpose due to expansion and flex factors. Leaking at the plastic seams is obviously a problem with how they are joined/glued but do they leak where they enter the block? Almost all the complaints are about splitting at the seams. If Al is better I'm sure Ford/JLR would have introduced it as an upgrade/fix by now. Have they? The failures of O rings could be symptomatic, not the cause.
My educated but no expert guess .... and that's all it is .... the aluminum pipes aren't fit for purpose due to expansion and flex factors. Leaking at the plastic seams is obviously a problem with how they are joined/glued but do they leak where they enter the block? Almost all the complaints are about splitting at the seams. If Al is better I'm sure Ford/JLR would have introduced it as an upgrade/fix by now. Have they? The failures of O rings could be symptomatic, not the cause.
The seams are a parting line on the injection mold. These parts are not glued or plastic ultrasonic welded together.
Thanks for sharing about the dimensionals. It would be good if Euro Amp came back and confirmed a few details for the forum, but of course they are under no obligation.
My educated but no expert guess .... and that's all it is .... the aluminum pipes aren't fit for purpose due to expansion and flex factors. Leaking at the plastic seams is obviously a problem with how they are joined/glued but do they leak where they enter the block? Almost all the complaints are about splitting at the seams. If Al is better I'm sure Ford/JLR would have introduced it as an upgrade/fix by now. Have they? The failures of O rings could be symptomatic, not the cause.
Not correct. There were 2 plastic versions. The first was indeed 2-piece glued together. since this was the weakest link, that’s where they would leak. The revised version was a solid one piece. But they fail where they connect to the block, literally crumbling pieces. Speaking from experience in both instances.
I have received the RKX Tech Green O-Rings. These O-Rings have several part numbers too but appear to be all the same O-ring?
Jaguar AJ811350 and Land Rover LR010800. I still can't find the real size so not sure what they use?
I have tried to measure them but with rubber it's a bit of a guess?
The ones on the "Y" pipe from EuroAmp are red/black and appear to be the same or at least very close to the same as the green ones from RKX.
O-Ring Thickness;
Red/Black = .118"
Green=.118"
Inner O-ring ID:
Red/Black = 1.09"
Green = 1.05"
Note I do get a "slight" difference in ID and the green ones are just a bit tighter to install. Can't say if one's better than the other?
Still undecided whether to use the green O-rings but I did pay extra for them so maybe I will?
Laying one on top of the other it's hard to see much difference?
I can see a bit of green in the picture but the camera angle is partly to blame.
Here is the machined O-Ring grove in the "Y" pipe. It looks well done.
O-Ring groove width = .140" and the O-Ring groove inner diameter was 1.118".
o rings are all metric.
I think either one should work but there was a reason RKX went to the added effort to release these in HNBR so there had to be some demand?
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o rings are all metric diameter and metric sizes if molded and not made from chord stock.
Not correct. There were 2 plastic versions. The first was indeed 2-piece glued together. since this was the weakest link, that’s where they would leak. The revised version was a solid one piece. But they fail where they connect to the block, literally crumbling pieces. Speaking from experience in both instances.
So they all (plastic and metal) leak where they enter the block except for the early ones that split at the 'seam'. Correct? The seams on mine are definitely wide protrusions and joined together somehow. I'm at 27k miles and most seem to be going around 50k from what I can tell. I was going to update to Al but might as well just wait. It seems to be luck of the draw which ones leak. I wonder if putting some jubilee clips around the plastic pipes with seams would help? Micky's Mouse but might help.
I have run a non pressure system since I got my car ...QUOTE]
What does this mean?
There are coolant alternatives which have such a high boiling point the circuit never produces pressure. The downside’s they don’t transfer heat very well.
02-05-2024, 02:34 PM
