I just had my first service at 12 months, part of which involved “C/S K309 oxygen sensors as per technical bulletin. Calibrated the powertrain control module and cleared faults via SDD.”

Although they told me this would not in any way be noticeable, I have noticed some changes in the settings: the clock was off, the ambient light and sound balance reverted to factory defaults, etc.

Has anyone else noticed these and/or other changes? I recall someone saying here that the battery depletion problem usually appears after the diagnostic port is used (as it was on my 12 month service). Correct?

 

So far, my mirror dip was shut off. I turned it back on. Stereo was unchanged. Digital speedometer still on.

 

Probably means that they did it correctly by disconnecting the battery when done. Mine had similar things after that service.

 

The battery is not supposed to get disconnected for K309. When the module update process occurs, many settings return to their default setting. The tech should be setting everything back to your preferences before the update. It doesn't always happen.

Ryan

 

Same happened to me. I assume they did hard reboot on everything (as they should).

 

Would you like me to post the Jag approved procedure? A hard reboot is not required and a certified tech isn't going to do it on his own volition.

Ryan

 

Might be that they do this because of the known battery drain issue? (so that the owner does not have to disconnect the battery after service....)

 

There are no bulletins regarding battery drain after service. I have seen issues where people plug in 3rd party hardware devices into the OBD2 port which screw with the BMS. That requires a BMS software reset but not a hard reset (battery disconnect).

Ryan

 

You are probably right. I have just read about these issues myself, but never experienced any problems with battery drains.

However each time I have had my car into service and/or some warranty issues where I know they have connected to the OBD port, some of the settings (like how to display the different mpg readings) have changed to factory settings.

 

Yeah, often times when we update modules, whatever settings that box influences defaults to factory settings. Some stuff sticks, some goes away. For example, I updated the Image Processing Module on a full size Range this morning (rear camera issue) and it zapped all the radio presets.

Ryan

 

That is correct. (Nor are there any bulletins regarding the bad clutches on the early MT production units). Every time my dealer taps into the ODBII (including for the 309), the battery alarm appears the following morning. "Properly" disconnecting the battery after an OBDII tap resolves that issue, but will also cause various settings to revert to OEM. It also deprograms the Window Auto UP feature.

 

I'm not sure what your field is, but I've been in mine for over 23 years. My certification comes from diagnosing and repairing thousands of JLR products. Not only do I do this in "real life", day in and day out, but I'm also an owner and enthusiast.

If you think you've got a better idea of what's "proper", knock yourself out. It's no skin off my nose. Just keep in mind that how your car behaves is anecdotal at best.

And if *every* time the dealer taps into your OBD port you get a battery alarm, then clearly your car or your dealer's hardware has an issue. Or perhaps they are not following the procedure correctly. That's doesn't necessarily mean JLR is going to issue a bulletin for it. I'm not going to speculate on whatever gremlins you've got.

If a hard reset was required for every car I've serviced, then the procedure would have changed to include a battery disconnect. I would've also been inundated with thousands of comebacks for battery alarms on those vehicles. However, that's not the case. I've got the history of each vehicle at my fingertips and I know what work's been performed, when and by whom. I've got a pretty good track record for spotting trends.

Ryan

 

My use of the term "proper" comes from the need to do the hard reboot. Too many people have taken their cars back to the dealer for this issue.
Yes, anecdotally, as told by several F-Type owners in a number of threads on this forum. Isaac Newton didn't need a bulletin from god (or Jaguar) to ascertain that gravity existed after that second apple hit him in the head.


I do not argue that all of the F-Types need to reboot, but a significant number do. I had taken my car in 3 times after the 309 update to have them identify the issue, but to no avail. Those of us with the issue have to rely on our own bulletin.

 

Sorry to jack your thread....but I just had my service done and there were 2 re flashes done....main thing I noticed is that my car no longer beeps the horn on second press of lock button on remote.....is this normal?

 

I believe you need to reprogram your user settings to make that work again.


You can get there via the menu button on the steering wheel, scroll up to vehicle settings, select security features and select audible lock warning. (Watch the display between the speedometer and tachometer.)
Other feature settings may have been changed by the reflashes as well.

 

Really... You're going to come back with a straw man argument?

What's a "significant number"? How many F-Types have you seen exhibit this? I've identified and repaired several quiescent current issues but it's certainly not been an epidemic. There are several reasons for our cars not "sleeping well". Sometimes it's a module issue, other times it's been traced to devices plugged into obd2 ports. The last one I saw was due to a dongle issued by an insurance company to make sure their client "behaved". 110ma of current draw after being put to sleep for 30 minutes. Jag specs 20-30ma of draw when asleep. Yeah, low battery alarms ensued. What's your car draw when sleeping?

I've also repaired faulty trunk harnesses that left the trunk light on. Point is, there are a myriad of circumstances that can cause a low battery alarm. This is my profession, so forgive me if I come across a little cross. If you were a carpenter by trade, I wouldn't try to tell you how to hang a stud because I built a deck once.

Internet forum threads, especially with a niche brand like Jag are anecdotal in nature. You can't draw a conclusion that a particular malady affects a "significant number" of vehicles when there are thousands of vehicle owners not reporting. I've met MANY F-Type/Jag owners & enthusiasts. I can probably count on one hand the number of owners who are members of Jaguar forums. A few have the same issues, which is handy when offering up free advice.
However, there are a lot more owners just happily motoring down the road.

If your dealer can't correct your issue, escalate it or take it somewhere else. It's not "normal" nor is there any instance where it should be prescribed. You're just masking the problem.

Ryan

 

One more thing I've seen.... battery tenders incorrectly wired. The negative side should go to a good chassis ground, not the negative battery terminal. Bypassing the BMS (on the negative battery lug) can cause all sorts of heartache. Especially on vehicles not driven often.

 

Ryan 23, while I appreciate that you are an automotive professional, I do not find that background compelling. I have a strong engineering background and after 50+ years of owning cars I find that the automotive service industry falls short of truly understanding all of the intricacies of automotive systems. There may well be engineers at the various headquarters who do, but there always seem to be problems with cars that trained and certified technicians cannot identify or correct.
I would not be surprised to find the battery management system on this car as one of those issues. In other threads, I have posted, along with others, that the observed charging behavior of this car is not only unlike any other car I have ever owned, it does not comport with long-established Pb-Acid battery management standards. Yet Jaguar service does not seem to recognize there is anything strange about this. The standard reply is that these cars do have high battery loads and that is why battery tenders exist, if you are going to park it for a while. I believe that my battery is never being fully charged by the alternator and a battery tender is just a Band-Aid.
There are enough reports on this forum about the OBD port and low battery that I believe there is a correlation that Jaguar refuses to acknowledge. That does not mean it happens with every car, unfortunately the nature of these complex systems.
I do not think you should dismiss such reports as fantasy.
Larry

 

Larry -
I'm sorry you don't have a lot of faith in those who work in the automotive service industry. However, it's a bit short sighted to paint everyone with that same brush. We draw experience from a variety of sources and believe it or not, some of us have hard science backgrounds. I take a lot of pride in what I do and I'm here because I enjoy the work, not because I need to put food on the table. With that said, there are times I get stumped which is why I have a direct means of communicating with the engineers in Mahwah and the UK. Fortunately, there has never been an instance where the folks at JLR have told me to "just ship it". They take their jobs seriously and hold me accountable for the repair.

Look, I understand that perceptions can be molded by a bad service visit. I get that there are service advisors and technicians out there who would be better suited for a Jiffy Lube. At your age, I would be surprised that you haven't noticed this trend in a variety of industries. But I digress...

I'm not suggesting that the concerns voiced on this forum are fantasy. Nor am I inferring that there isn't an issue when third party devices get plugged into the DLC connector. I've seen it, however, I have not found a correlation when our own software and hardware are used. In the spirit of this particular thread, the "anomaly" here is some user settings get defaulted due to a module reset. Not because a procedure wasn't followed or that something more insidious was going on. If battery alarms were the result of plugging into the DLC , surely I would have seen at least one vehicle return. Services/campaign are a daily occurrence, battery issues are not. I've got the history of every vehicle at my fingertips and I take advantage of it when a vehicle has a concern. I have a large pool of vehicles to base my data from. If you can't see the value to that, than I don't know what to tell you.

With that said, I'm not going to disagree with your speculations regarding battery management strategies on vehicles which are not driven often. These customers make up the bulk of my battery replacement data. It's usually something along the lines of an 07' XK vert with 21,000 miles. A look at the history will show a battery replacement a year ago. Since it's last visit, it's accumulated a whopping 2,000 miles. "But I just put a battery in it!!" Welcome to Florida.

Ryan

 

Worked perfectly! Thanks a Bunch!!