Anyone own or consider a Toyota Supra
#21
I haven't driven a Supra, nor would I own one as my sports cars need to have the top come down and I don't like the styling. I do, however, have a Z4 M40i which has the same engine as the 2021 Supra and is largely the same car and I will say that I really like it; it obviously isn't as fast as my F type V8S was but perhaps not as far off as you'd expect......but regardless, it is a very nice car; handling, feel, power, etc.
Since the BMW is an upscale and topless version of the Supra with better tech, more premium features and (in 2020) more power, it was the obvious choice between the two.......actually it was the Boxster and MB SLC that I cross shopped and the Z4 was the easy winner in that comparison.
Dave
Since the BMW is an upscale and topless version of the Supra with better tech, more premium features and (in 2020) more power, it was the obvious choice between the two.......actually it was the Boxster and MB SLC that I cross shopped and the Z4 was the easy winner in that comparison.
Dave
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Madscott (03-08-2021)
#22
That was my era. Now I'm getting all misty-eyed and nostalgic. I've owned nine of them. Here's four from about 16 years ago. I still have the silver one in front. The red one is in Atlanta, the Blue in San Antonio and the black in Nashville last I heard.
As I recall, they started about $13K for the L-type in 82 and went to about $20K for the fully loaded P-type by 85, sticker prices anyway. Mustangs started around $9K for a 4-banger by comparison. I used to ride my bicycle to the Toyota dealership and drool over them till the salesmen shooed me away. We had right here in Dallas in the early 80s a company called Cartech that installed turbochargers on them and they'd occasionally show up at the local drag strip. I remember some very impressive runs in the 10s. (It all started 20 years before Fast and Furious). No way that as a teenager in a blue-collar family I was going to get one but I swore that I would as soon as I graduated college. Just didn't know it was going to become an unhealthy obsession.
Values of nice examples now are through the roof. We've had a few sell in the $30Ks in the past few years, but typical beat-up survivors are still in the low to mid thousands because there's no parts and its quite impractical to restore one. About all you could do with the average survivor is to make a race car out of it. One really low mileage example like the red one pictured just topped $40K on BAT recently including the fees which just seems insane as it feels like only yesterday I was buying really nice ones like that for $3,000 -$4,000.
Sorry I can't contribute much about the new Supras except to say that the faithful in the Supra community still seem split. About half say never, because its got that BMW engine while others seemed to welcome the return of the nameplate and are thankful that its at least still got a straight six. I read something about a company already selling a swap kit to fit the 2jz into it, but I couldn't confirm. Probably wouldn't pass emissions anywhere anyway with a 25-30 year old motor so I guess 1,000+ hp is probably not going to happen anymore. Certainly would void the warranty.
As I recall, they started about $13K for the L-type in 82 and went to about $20K for the fully loaded P-type by 85, sticker prices anyway. Mustangs started around $9K for a 4-banger by comparison. I used to ride my bicycle to the Toyota dealership and drool over them till the salesmen shooed me away. We had right here in Dallas in the early 80s a company called Cartech that installed turbochargers on them and they'd occasionally show up at the local drag strip. I remember some very impressive runs in the 10s. (It all started 20 years before Fast and Furious). No way that as a teenager in a blue-collar family I was going to get one but I swore that I would as soon as I graduated college. Just didn't know it was going to become an unhealthy obsession.
Values of nice examples now are through the roof. We've had a few sell in the $30Ks in the past few years, but typical beat-up survivors are still in the low to mid thousands because there's no parts and its quite impractical to restore one. About all you could do with the average survivor is to make a race car out of it. One really low mileage example like the red one pictured just topped $40K on BAT recently including the fees which just seems insane as it feels like only yesterday I was buying really nice ones like that for $3,000 -$4,000.
Sorry I can't contribute much about the new Supras except to say that the faithful in the Supra community still seem split. About half say never, because its got that BMW engine while others seemed to welcome the return of the nameplate and are thankful that its at least still got a straight six. I read something about a company already selling a swap kit to fit the 2jz into it, but I couldn't confirm. Probably wouldn't pass emissions anywhere anyway with a 25-30 year old motor so I guess 1,000+ hp is probably not going to happen anymore. Certainly would void the warranty.
#23
My mate here in the UK had an 83 one like those. We used to lift share to work in the mid 90s and by then it was a rusty wreck and leaked so much oil we called it the Amoco Cadiz. I hated riding in the back of it because it was a death trap. One day I noticed the temp gauge had gone into the red and he hadn't noticed. I was sat there debating with myself whether to tell him or leave the engine to seize then he'd have to get a new car! I told him. He still has it tucked away in a garage. It's probably beyond saving by now.
Last edited by pdupler; 03-08-2021 at 05:53 PM.
#24
#25
Thought about purchasing one instead of the F-type.
My son had a Z-4. Used. Was a nice car. However in its first three years it had more than $10,000 worth of warranty work. New head. New steering system. New top motors.
Kind of left a bad taste. 22,000 miles.
Besides, the F-type is a looker.
My son had a Z-4. Used. Was a nice car. However in its first three years it had more than $10,000 worth of warranty work. New head. New steering system. New top motors.
Kind of left a bad taste. 22,000 miles.
Besides, the F-type is a looker.
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scm (03-11-2021)
#26
This was one of the cars on my list and I think it looks beautiful. Like any first year production cars they made a fair amount of changes in 2021. I was curious if anyone has driven one and their thoughts. I never pursued looking further into it once I realized almost the entire car is just a BMW with a Toyota logo. I like BMW but own one as my daily driver and didn't want another car that felt like my BMW. Still curious if anyone has driven one or owns one and their thoughts.
Finally wound up a week ago getting a used 2019 Z4 30i with dynamic handling / m sport, etc.. Love it. Handles great - lighter feeling & more "planted" in comparison to FType.
Don't get me wrong - loved my FType but like this just as well & in many ways better.
Still prefer the looks however of FType - in any form - to either one. Best of luck with your decision.
#27
This was one of the cars on my list and I think it looks beautiful. Like any first year production cars they made a fair amount of changes in 2021. I was curious if anyone has driven one and their thoughts. I never pursued looking further into it once I realized almost the entire car is just a BMW with a Toyota logo. I like BMW but own one as my daily driver and didn't want another car that felt like my BMW. Still curious if anyone has driven one or owns one and their thoughts.
Finally wound up a week ago getting a used 2019 Z4 30i with dynamic handling / m sport, etc.. Love it. Handles great - lighter feeling & more "planted" in comparison to FType.
Don't get me wrong - loved my FType but like this just as well & in many ways better.
Still prefer the exterior looks however of FType - in any form - to either one. Best of luck with your decision.
#28
Thought about purchasing one instead of the F-type.
My son had a Z-4. Used. Was a nice car. However in its first three years it had more than $10,000 worth of warranty work. New head. New steering system. New top motors.
Kind of left a bad taste. 22,000 miles.
Besides, the F-type is a looker.
My son had a Z-4. Used. Was a nice car. However in its first three years it had more than $10,000 worth of warranty work. New head. New steering system. New top motors.
Kind of left a bad taste. 22,000 miles.
Besides, the F-type is a looker.
It's kinda funny to hear a Jaguar/Landrover owner compare reliability to BMW in a negative light...LOL. I had no real issues with my F type and I bought a new Range Rover last week so I'm not hung up on the fact that JRL has such poor reliability ratings but it's still funny. I'm not sure that a used prior gen Z4 is a good potential indicator of reliability with the 2019+ G29 variant but any vehicle can have issues but I'm hoping my Z4 is a good car from that perspective....if not, I have a 7 year warranty so I won't worry about it for awhile. Certainly, regardless of stats, if you have a bad experience (regardless of brand or whether or not they have good or bad ratings), it tends to color your opinion and rightly so.
Cheers,
Dave
Last edited by DPelletier; 03-11-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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SinF (03-11-2021)
#29
The issues like VANOS or disposable crank bearings don't tend to come up during 2 or 3 year lease typical BMW owner has their car. The fact that you could have formally $100K+ BMW be mechanically totaled at around 8 year mark is only abstractly reflected in the higher lease payments for such owners.
Last edited by SinF; 03-11-2021 at 11:22 AM.
#30
So I did the swap, out of my 16s awd vert, the supra is better in every way besides noise, and looks. Way faster, handles 10x better, way more modding potential, and way more fun to drive. Plus much cheaper, got mine 10k off sticker, for a loaded premium 3.0, has all the tech I missed in the Jag.
#31
The issues like VANOS or disposable crank bearings don't tend to come up during 2 or 3 year lease typical BMW owner has their car. The fact that you could have formally $100K+ BMW be mechanically totaled at around 8 year mark is only abstractly reflected in the higher lease payments for such owners.
I'm not gonna argue BMW vs. JLR reliability with you; it's not me that puts JLR at the bottom of the heap. Like I said, I had no problems with my F type, I hope I have no problems with my RR sport and I've had no issues with our BMW's in the past.
https://driving.ca/lexus/features/fe...or-reliability
Dave
Last edited by DPelletier; 03-11-2021 at 11:41 AM.
#32
If you were looking GenIV then maybe i would get it. These new Bim'ras are fine vehicles, but why bother when you have the F-Type as an alternate?
the 2021 restyle isnt going to have changed this reality: And as many have already said: its not that nice looking of a car - based on the lamest of sporting Bimmers really says its not what the Supra was originally intended to be.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...a-supra-turbo/
I considered a new Supra, before they showed it, before it was spec'd, when it was just going to be the return! The outcome is boring, you may as well just buy a camry. The comments i have read from others here really does speak to this, so perhaps ask yourself what you are hoping for from this dull product and if its ticking those boxes, do it, but otherwise i will say "Life is too short to drive boring cars"
the 2021 restyle isnt going to have changed this reality: And as many have already said: its not that nice looking of a car - based on the lamest of sporting Bimmers really says its not what the Supra was originally intended to be.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...a-supra-turbo/
I considered a new Supra, before they showed it, before it was spec'd, when it was just going to be the return! The outcome is boring, you may as well just buy a camry. The comments i have read from others here really does speak to this, so perhaps ask yourself what you are hoping for from this dull product and if its ticking those boxes, do it, but otherwise i will say "Life is too short to drive boring cars"
#33
If you were looking GenIV then maybe i would get it. These new Bim'ras are fine vehicles, but why bother when you have the F-Type as an alternate?
the 2021 restyle isnt going to have changed this reality: And as many have already said: its not that nice looking of a car - based on the lamest of sporting Bimmers really says its not what the Supra was originally intended to be.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...a-supra-turbo/
I considered a new Supra, before they showed it, before it was spec'd, when it was just going to be the return! The outcome is boring, you may as well just buy a camry. The comments i have read from others here really does speak to this, so perhaps ask yourself what you are hoping for from this dull product and if its ticking those boxes, do it, but otherwise i will say "Life is too short to drive boring cars"
the 2021 restyle isnt going to have changed this reality: And as many have already said: its not that nice looking of a car - based on the lamest of sporting Bimmers really says its not what the Supra was originally intended to be.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...a-supra-turbo/
I considered a new Supra, before they showed it, before it was spec'd, when it was just going to be the return! The outcome is boring, you may as well just buy a camry. The comments i have read from others here really does speak to this, so perhaps ask yourself what you are hoping for from this dull product and if its ticking those boxes, do it, but otherwise i will say "Life is too short to drive boring cars"
#34
Vette is better
Have you seen one in person? I saw it at the 2019 SEMA show, not a good looking car, confused lines, bulbous hood and the rear end is ugly. Sitting in it it seemed very confining.The BMW Z4 is better looking and is a convertible, but a lot more expensive. Toyotas are known for their reliability, but the engine is a BMW. I compared it with the new Corvette at the show and the Corvette looked much better, had a V8 rather than a straight 6 and had 100 more horsepower and is mid-engine. For only $5,000 more I would go for the Corvette, but neither one looks as good as the F-Type.
Brian A.
Brian A.
#35
Have you seen one in person? I saw it at the 2019 SEMA show, not a good looking car, confused lines, bulbous hood and the rear end is ugly. Sitting in it it seemed very confining.The BMW Z4 is better looking and is a convertible, but a lot more expensive. Toyotas are known for their reliability, but the engine is a BMW. I compared it with the new Corvette at the show and the Corvette looked much better, had a V8 rather than a straight 6 and had 100 more horsepower and is mid-engine. For only $5,000 more I would go for the Corvette, but neither one looks as good as the F-Type.
Brian A.
Brian A.
#36
New Supra is a good looking car if your 25. I little to Boy Racer for me without the bang. I had a 280XZ, Maserati Coupe GT and now the F-Type. All very similar lines. I like used Austin Martins too. Ok I like the look.
Jag is classier ride in a different playing field. I am in Scottsdale where nice cars are a dime a dozen. The Jag never fails to get stares, points and head snaps. Getting older and have had many cars. I Supra looks liek a real pain to wash too. Water pouring out everywhere for days. Like a MINI Cooper. Jag is the easiest car I ever washed period! Like 15 minutes-done.
Jag is classier ride in a different playing field. I am in Scottsdale where nice cars are a dime a dozen. The Jag never fails to get stares, points and head snaps. Getting older and have had many cars. I Supra looks liek a real pain to wash too. Water pouring out everywhere for days. Like a MINI Cooper. Jag is the easiest car I ever washed period! Like 15 minutes-done.
#37
#38
OK, I wasn't going to post this here because it won't be well recieved but my thoughts on the F type vs. Z4 M40i (Supra is the same car except for the body and hardtop and a few less goodies). I didn't even consider the Supra because my sportscar was always going to be topless regardless of brand;
With regards to exterior styling; I loved the look of my F type with the exception of a couple of items; notably the grill bar and the thick looking belt line. Also I didn't care for the wheels or tires. Looks are subjective but I like the look of both and I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of the Supra styling. There is no doubt that the F type got more attention from people - due to the more exclusive badge, stellar looks and obnoxious levels of noise. Some people like the extra attention and some don't.......mostly I'm in the latter catagory.
My F type V8S was more powerful and faster than the Z4 M40i......but the difference was small and actual power difference at the wheels is around 75hp or so.......not insignificant but not huge given the 300lb weight advantage of the Z4. A great many of the Z4 M40i tests online are for the 335hp european model, not the 382hp NA model. The M40i outperforms a V6S F type in every measureable way. Where the M40i shines in comparison to my F type is in dynamic feel and control; it just handles better and feels lighter....because it is.
I miss my F type but found myself with both it and my wife's SLK350 Mercedes and I decided that we should have only one sportscar. She didn't like driving the F type as it was larger, had a higher beltline and she found it intimidating to drive and park. I cross shopped for a replacement and I wanted a lighter, smaller and more dynamic car. Naturally the Porsche dealer was our first stop but after driving the 718 Boxster S (as well as a 911S and 981 Boxster), I found that despite the brilliant handling, the 4 cylinder engine left me flat and I couldn't see paying the price they wanted for a car that sounded like my son's Subaru......and speaking of price, the Porsche's MSRP was $115,000 and the dealer wanted a bit MORE than MSRP. In comparison my Z4's MSRP was $85,000 and I got it for less....and it was optioned out far more than the Porsche. I also test drove a new MB SLC43AMG but it was a dated outgoing model and couldn't compete dynamically with the Porsche or BMW. The MB SL63AMG was nice but very expensive and was larger and less dynamic than what I wanted. The Audi TT was a natural competitor, but I couldn't get past the look of it so I didn't even drive one. The C8 wasn't out when I bought my Z4 and while it's obviously the best "bang for the buck" out there, it isn't what I was looking for and I'm happy with my choice as I was looking for a premium luxury sportscar, not a Corvette.
Things I miss about my F type;
- stellar looks
- intoxicating power
Things I prefer about my Z4 M40i;
- smaller size
- more dynamic handling
- I prefer the brakes, rims and tires (came with Michelin Pilot SS's)
- the interior is more modern with more up-to-date infotainment system - as you'd expect from a 6 year newer car.
- more cockpit space with room behind my seat (I'm 5'11"); my F type seat was all the way back until it touched the bulkhead
- more trunk space
...and 95% of the time, I prefer the more subdued exhaust note of the BMW. The F type made me want to drive it hard all the time - for whatever reason, I'm more content to drive the Z4 at semi-normal speeds.
I'm not bashing the F type and I loved the time I had with mine but the Z4 is quite good......and a bargain IMO considering what you get for your money. When I eventually replace it, I'll likely be looking at a Porsche 718 GTS now that they put the flat six back in them.
Cheers,
Dave
With regards to exterior styling; I loved the look of my F type with the exception of a couple of items; notably the grill bar and the thick looking belt line. Also I didn't care for the wheels or tires. Looks are subjective but I like the look of both and I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of the Supra styling. There is no doubt that the F type got more attention from people - due to the more exclusive badge, stellar looks and obnoxious levels of noise. Some people like the extra attention and some don't.......mostly I'm in the latter catagory.
My F type V8S was more powerful and faster than the Z4 M40i......but the difference was small and actual power difference at the wheels is around 75hp or so.......not insignificant but not huge given the 300lb weight advantage of the Z4. A great many of the Z4 M40i tests online are for the 335hp european model, not the 382hp NA model. The M40i outperforms a V6S F type in every measureable way. Where the M40i shines in comparison to my F type is in dynamic feel and control; it just handles better and feels lighter....because it is.
I miss my F type but found myself with both it and my wife's SLK350 Mercedes and I decided that we should have only one sportscar. She didn't like driving the F type as it was larger, had a higher beltline and she found it intimidating to drive and park. I cross shopped for a replacement and I wanted a lighter, smaller and more dynamic car. Naturally the Porsche dealer was our first stop but after driving the 718 Boxster S (as well as a 911S and 981 Boxster), I found that despite the brilliant handling, the 4 cylinder engine left me flat and I couldn't see paying the price they wanted for a car that sounded like my son's Subaru......and speaking of price, the Porsche's MSRP was $115,000 and the dealer wanted a bit MORE than MSRP. In comparison my Z4's MSRP was $85,000 and I got it for less....and it was optioned out far more than the Porsche. I also test drove a new MB SLC43AMG but it was a dated outgoing model and couldn't compete dynamically with the Porsche or BMW. The MB SL63AMG was nice but very expensive and was larger and less dynamic than what I wanted. The Audi TT was a natural competitor, but I couldn't get past the look of it so I didn't even drive one. The C8 wasn't out when I bought my Z4 and while it's obviously the best "bang for the buck" out there, it isn't what I was looking for and I'm happy with my choice as I was looking for a premium luxury sportscar, not a Corvette.
Things I miss about my F type;
- stellar looks
- intoxicating power
Things I prefer about my Z4 M40i;
- smaller size
- more dynamic handling
- I prefer the brakes, rims and tires (came with Michelin Pilot SS's)
- the interior is more modern with more up-to-date infotainment system - as you'd expect from a 6 year newer car.
- more cockpit space with room behind my seat (I'm 5'11"); my F type seat was all the way back until it touched the bulkhead
- more trunk space
...and 95% of the time, I prefer the more subdued exhaust note of the BMW. The F type made me want to drive it hard all the time - for whatever reason, I'm more content to drive the Z4 at semi-normal speeds.
I'm not bashing the F type and I loved the time I had with mine but the Z4 is quite good......and a bargain IMO considering what you get for your money. When I eventually replace it, I'll likely be looking at a Porsche 718 GTS now that they put the flat six back in them.
Cheers,
Dave
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mmmjag (08-21-2021)
#39
I’ve got an MKIV Supra, and have always been a fan of Supra / Supra-Celicas. That being said, I think the new Supra looks great, is capable, and all around a great car...however, if it was me and I knew I was buying a re-skinned BMW I would probably just buy an M2 for the same money.
Better diff, better trans, better engine, better brakes, a rear seat, bigger trunk, all for the same money.
The only reason I see to buy a Supra is if you really absolutely love the looks. if your on the fence, for the same money you get a better BMW in the M2
Better diff, better trans, better engine, better brakes, a rear seat, bigger trunk, all for the same money.
The only reason I see to buy a Supra is if you really absolutely love the looks. if your on the fence, for the same money you get a better BMW in the M2
#40
Yes, people/dealers are exploiting the availability but wait 8 months when there are 5 or 6 on the dealers lot. Toyota Dealers are charging over sticker for the new Supra as well.
I would never pay over sticker for a car. That $80,000 won't carry over and make the resale value higher. I remember when the Mazda Miata first came out and dealers were getting $3 to $4 thousand over sticker for about six months, ta friend of mine who fell for that got screwed when he traded it two years later for a new car.
I would never pay over sticker for a car. That $80,000 won't carry over and make the resale value higher. I remember when the Mazda Miata first came out and dealers were getting $3 to $4 thousand over sticker for about six months, ta friend of mine who fell for that got screwed when he traded it two years later for a new car.