BMW to supply Jaguar with Twin-Turbo V8s
#21
Hmmm . . . speaking of the N63 TT V8, this is interesting in light of our frequent discussions of the F-Type battery mgmt software and the observations of many including myself about the low charging rates when monitored w/ voltmeter:
"As part of its EfficientDynamics push, BMW's cars are loaded with expensive systems to save fuel wherever possible. One of them, the smart-charging system, operates on the premise that you can increase fuel economy slightly by charging the battery only when coasting. Unfortunately, American drivers aren't coasters, we're cruisers, so the system was murdering batteries. BMW's solution was to throw money at the problem, replacing the batteries with Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) units that can cope with deeper and more frequent discharge cycles."
Enginerdy: Why BMW's N63 twin-turbo V8 eats batteries
"As part of its EfficientDynamics push, BMW's cars are loaded with expensive systems to save fuel wherever possible. One of them, the smart-charging system, operates on the premise that you can increase fuel economy slightly by charging the battery only when coasting. Unfortunately, American drivers aren't coasters, we're cruisers, so the system was murdering batteries. BMW's solution was to throw money at the problem, replacing the batteries with Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) units that can cope with deeper and more frequent discharge cycles."
Enginerdy: Why BMW's N63 twin-turbo V8 eats batteries
Finally, the CCP offers a way to cover up the N63's habit of chewing through batteries: It contains a technical service bulletin to replace them at every oil change. This is where things get confusing. Why not just fix the underlying electrical problem? As it turns out, BMW can't.
And they reduced the OCI to 10K miles from 15K miles.
Since the only way to get the battery at no charge is under
the CCP, I guess the oil change has to be at the dealer.
After the CCP expires, the oil+battery changes are going
to be expensive.
#22
Yes that would be good too. That's what cars like the porsche 918 do. However the electric turbo isn't that. It's a turbo that can be spooled by both electric power in a lightweight 48v battery as well as spoiled by exhaust gases. So it will have immediate response using electricity and no lag. It's a turbo which has the response of a supercharger but without the parasitic loss.
Electric drive assist can smooth out power curves, create radical improvements in active traction control, save energy, and boost torque massively.
Having come from a 10 years of BMW V-8's I'm just not that excited about this news unless it comes with some more leading edge innovation.
I'm more excited about seeing what JLR can get out of its forthcoming inline 6 ingenium engine.....the power densities coming out of that line are really compelling. 500+bhp out of an I6!
#23
#25
If you read online this is being done for financial and fuel economy reasons. Jaguar/Land Rover going too inline 3 and 6 cylinder engines. V8's only in high end models, since they will be dropping their V6, it's not cost effective to keep producing their V8's or engineer a new smaller fuel efficient V8. BMW needs to produce more V8 bi turbos to bring their costs down. So its a win for both.
Most V8 engine units are sold here in the US anyway, more European units will have I-3's and I-6's. EU taxes I have heard are also much higher when engines are over 4.0L.
Most V8 engine units are sold here in the US anyway, more European units will have I-3's and I-6's. EU taxes I have heard are also much higher when engines are over 4.0L.
The following users liked this post:
schraderade (07-30-2016)
#27
It's built in the Ford Bridgend Engine Plant and JLR's contract with Ford is going to expire soon. I guess there is some doubt about Ford supplying once the contract expires.
And Ford keeps putting up the price per engine in the meantime, so i've been told...
There are a few other things that JLR has to give up when the contract expires, the SDD diagnostic system is a big one (it's based on Ford IDS coding) so they've been developing their own software system in the meantime. I believe other software architectures are also having to be replaced, since they have Ford and Volvo origins.
And Ford keeps putting up the price per engine in the meantime, so i've been told...
There are a few other things that JLR has to give up when the contract expires, the SDD diagnostic system is a big one (it's based on Ford IDS coding) so they've been developing their own software system in the meantime. I believe other software architectures are also having to be replaced, since they have Ford and Volvo origins.
#28
BMW cannot fix it without recertifying the engines in question.
It sounds very similar to the problem discussed in the X150
section that causes many owners to fall back to using a
battery maintainer.
#29
Jaguar's Ingenium platform was always intended to be a highly modularized power plant and the I6 is both an elegant way to extend their in-house 4Cyl engine block and a way to drive some really solid performance out of a ground-up engine architecture.
Jaguar had planned to take its large volume engines in house for a long time....but this wasn't quite in response to the looming end of the supply contract with Ford: rather, it reflects the strategic intention of the brand to broaden its sales volume and product lines and a reluctance to give up engine margin and intellectual property to vendors.
#30
It's built in the Ford Bridgend Engine Plant and JLR's contract with Ford is going to expire soon. I guess there is some doubt about Ford supplying once the contract expires.
And Ford keeps putting up the price per engine in the meantime, so i've been told...
There are a few other things that JLR has to give up when the contract expires, the SDD diagnostic system is a big one (it's based on Ford IDS coding) so they've been developing their own software system in the meantime. I believe other software architectures are also having to be replaced, since they have Ford and Volvo origins.
And Ford keeps putting up the price per engine in the meantime, so i've been told...
There are a few other things that JLR has to give up when the contract expires, the SDD diagnostic system is a big one (it's based on Ford IDS coding) so they've been developing their own software system in the meantime. I believe other software architectures are also having to be replaced, since they have Ford and Volvo origins.
I think this is a business enterprise value decision, vs. anything else, but purely a hypothesis that supports what you wrote.
#32
The following 3 users liked this post by Eurotoys:
#33
The following 2 users liked this post by Mulmur:
andrew lowe (08-02-2016),
schraderade (08-02-2016)
#34
I agree. BMW is not what they used to be and they always seem to have oil consumption issues, oil leak issues, oil sludge issues. One of my neighbors has a new X5, he has had the "Add 2 quarts of oil" light come on twice already. The dealer told him it was normal for the Turbo engine because it was high performance.
The following users liked this post:
SinF (08-02-2016)
#35
I agree. BMW is not what they used to be and they always seem to have oil consumption issues, oil leak issues, oil sludge issues. One of my neighbors has a new X5, he has had the "Add 2 quarts of oil" light come on twice already. The dealer told him it was normal for the Turbo engine because it was high performance.
Last edited by jaguny; 07-30-2016 at 05:57 AM.
The following users liked this post:
SinF (08-02-2016)
#37
Ralf Speth (CEO Jaguar Land Rover) came out of BMW before Ford, and still co-resides in Munich where BMW's headquarters are located.
The Munich business community is very close knitted, and while it's unlikely that Ralf drove the decision, it's very likely that his relationships have helped the dialogue between the two companies.
The Munich business community is very close knitted, and while it's unlikely that Ralf drove the decision, it's very likely that his relationships have helped the dialogue between the two companies.
#38
Ford engine vs. BMW engine...hmmm.
That implied, I've always preferred a supercharged vs. turbocharged torque profile.
#39
THE JAGUAR AJ-V8 ENGINE / AJ6 Engineering
The following users liked this post:
NBCat (08-11-2016)
#40