Certified Jag sold to me with no oil changes for 3 yrs.
#1
Certified Jag sold to me with no oil changes for 3 yrs.
Last month purchased a Certified 2017 F type with 12K miles. Thought this was a no brainer, low mileage and an extended warranty in the USA. Drive it home from the dealer and low battery light is on. Take the car to a local dealer and battery is replaced, get home and low battery light is on again. Take the car to another dealer and they find a loose cable, all is good so far. This dealer pulls up service history and finds there has never been an oil change since new. The Certification requires annual oil changes. This was a leased car for 3 years and was never serviced or had a recall notices addressed.
The selling dealer to me did change the oil and attended to recalls just before sale to me. I have driven the car 1000 miles and just changed the oil and sent it out for analysis. Test results show very high Aluminum, Iron and Copper content. Selling dealer will not respond and Jaguar of North America closed my case. I did put $5000. of purchase on a credit card so I have some leverage. On some other forums, the car manufactures will chime in when there are problems, don't know if that is the case here? Not new to Jaguars, my E type owned 50 years and have a 1999 Xk8. To pursue in court makes no financial sense.
Glenn
The selling dealer to me did change the oil and attended to recalls just before sale to me. I have driven the car 1000 miles and just changed the oil and sent it out for analysis. Test results show very high Aluminum, Iron and Copper content. Selling dealer will not respond and Jaguar of North America closed my case. I did put $5000. of purchase on a credit card so I have some leverage. On some other forums, the car manufactures will chime in when there are problems, don't know if that is the case here? Not new to Jaguars, my E type owned 50 years and have a 1999 Xk8. To pursue in court makes no financial sense.
Glenn
#2
Last month purchased a Certified 2017 F type with 12K miles. Thought this was a no brainer, low mileage and an extended warranty in the USA. Drive it home from the dealer and low battery light is on. Take the car to a local dealer and battery is replaced, get home and low battery light is on again. Take the car to another dealer and they find a loose cable, all is good so far. This dealer pulls up service history and finds there has never been an oil change since new. The Certification requires annual oil changes. This was a leased car for 3 years and was never serviced or had a recall notices addressed.
The selling dealer to me did change the oil and attended to recalls just before sale to me. I have driven the car 1000 miles and just changed the oil and sent it out for analysis. Test results show very high Aluminum, Iron and Copper content. Selling dealer will not respond and Jaguar of North America closed my case. I did put $5000. of purchase on a credit card so I have some leverage. On some other forums, the car manufactures will chime in when there are problems, don't know if that is the case here? Not new to Jaguars, my E type owned 50 years and have a 1999 Xk8. To pursue in court makes no financial sense.
Glenn
The selling dealer to me did change the oil and attended to recalls just before sale to me. I have driven the car 1000 miles and just changed the oil and sent it out for analysis. Test results show very high Aluminum, Iron and Copper content. Selling dealer will not respond and Jaguar of North America closed my case. I did put $5000. of purchase on a credit card so I have some leverage. On some other forums, the car manufactures will chime in when there are problems, don't know if that is the case here? Not new to Jaguars, my E type owned 50 years and have a 1999 Xk8. To pursue in court makes no financial sense.
Glenn
You might want to do a double change to flush the oil better - change the oil, drive a 100 miles, change it again - before deciding you have an issue.
You might consider adding something like Amsoil engine flush right before the first change of the double.
After all that maybe send another sample to compare.
Last edited by RacerX; 02-29-2020 at 04:41 PM.
#3
What concerns me is that this car was used for short trips around Beverly Hills as per data on GPS.
Don't think it ever hit the highway. Filter looked fine but that was after 1000 miles after its only oil change.
Oil was very dirty and analysis was high for metalic content. I assume because of trace amounts of oil left behind.
Will do another oil change soon if oil appears dirty. Engine flush products scare me for use in a close tolerance modern engine.
Glenn
Don't think it ever hit the highway. Filter looked fine but that was after 1000 miles after its only oil change.
Oil was very dirty and analysis was high for metalic content. I assume because of trace amounts of oil left behind.
Will do another oil change soon if oil appears dirty. Engine flush products scare me for use in a close tolerance modern engine.
Glenn
#4
First you need to determine if there is a problem. While 12K, 3 years and lots of short trips is highly alarming, the oil might have been adequate not to cause damage. Do a scope, see how much sludge is inside valve covers, intakes. If lots of sludge - you have a cause to ask for remedies. If not, do an engine flush and move on. Your car has probably an equivalent of 50K miles of wear, but it still good for another 100K.
#5
What concerns me is that this car was used for short trips around Beverly Hills as per data on GPS.
Don't think it ever hit the highway. Filter looked fine but that was after 1000 miles after its only oil change.
Oil was very dirty and analysis was high for metalic content. I assume because of trace amounts of oil left behind.
Will do another oil change soon if oil appears dirty. Engine flush products scare me for use in a close tolerance modern engine.
Glenn
Don't think it ever hit the highway. Filter looked fine but that was after 1000 miles after its only oil change.
Oil was very dirty and analysis was high for metalic content. I assume because of trace amounts of oil left behind.
Will do another oil change soon if oil appears dirty. Engine flush products scare me for use in a close tolerance modern engine.
Glenn
If the documented criteria for certification were not met, that's something to take up with the dealer and JLR. Not sure of the details or your now-closed case with JLR, but it seems worthwhile to get the inspection report from the certification.
#6
What concerns me is that this car was used for short trips around Beverly Hills as per data on GPS.
Don't think it ever hit the highway. Filter looked fine but that was after 1000 miles after its only oil change.
Oil was very dirty and analysis was high for metalic content. I assume because of trace amounts of oil left behind.
Will do another oil change soon if oil appears dirty. Engine flush products scare me for use in a close tolerance modern engine.
Glenn
Don't think it ever hit the highway. Filter looked fine but that was after 1000 miles after its only oil change.
Oil was very dirty and analysis was high for metalic content. I assume because of trace amounts of oil left behind.
Will do another oil change soon if oil appears dirty. Engine flush products scare me for use in a close tolerance modern engine.
Glenn
#8
Last edited by RacerX; 02-29-2020 at 10:09 PM.
#9
#10
Seems unlikely since oil changes are included for free at the dealer on 2017 models. They would have been eligible to get it done once a year regardless of mileage, but sounds like they just didn't care because it was a lease.
#11
Seems unlikely since oil changes are included for free at the dealer on 2017 models. They would have been eligible to get it done once a year regardless of mileage, but sounds like they just didn't care because it was a lease.
IMO manufacturer recommended long oil change intervals and recommended light oil weights are designed to induce wear, minimized included service costs, and to avoid heavy EPA manufacturer fleet mpg fines. They are not to help the customer extend their car's life, just the opposite, really. Imagine the board room horror if most cars lasted twice as long.
Last edited by RacerX; 03-01-2020 at 11:59 AM.
#13
There are still brand new 2018s on autotrader that have no in-service date to begin covered annual oil services. They could hit ~3 years and 16K miles and be considered on schedule.
Last edited by RacerX; 03-01-2020 at 11:52 AM.
#15
Tricky proposition, as you also have to be careful of the dreaded overfill warning. Depending on ambient conditions I've seen my car read overfilled and just above halfway with the same amount of oil in the car.
Seems unlikely since oil changes are included for free at the dealer on 2017 models. They would have been eligible to get it done once a year regardless of mileage, but sounds like they just didn't care because it was a lease.
Seems unlikely since oil changes are included for free at the dealer on 2017 models. They would have been eligible to get it done once a year regardless of mileage, but sounds like they just didn't care because it was a lease.
#16
Last month purchased a Certified 2017 F type with 12K miles. Thought this was a no brainer, low mileage and an extended warranty in the USA. Drive it home from the dealer and low battery light is on. Take the car to a local dealer and battery is replaced, get home and low battery light is on again. Take the car to another dealer and they find a loose cable, all is good so far. This dealer pulls up service history and finds there has never been an oil change since new. The Certification requires annual oil changes. This was a leased car for 3 years and was never serviced or had a recall notices addressed.
The selling dealer to me did change the oil and attended to recalls just before sale to me. I have driven the car 1000 miles and just changed the oil and sent it out for analysis. Test results show very high Aluminum, Iron and Copper content. Selling dealer will not respond and Jaguar of North America closed my case. I did put $5000. of purchase on a credit card so I have some leverage. On some other forums, the car manufactures will chime in when there are problems, don't know if that is the case here? Not new to Jaguars, my E type owned 50 years and have a 1999 Xk8. To pursue in court makes no financial sense.
Glenn
The selling dealer to me did change the oil and attended to recalls just before sale to me. I have driven the car 1000 miles and just changed the oil and sent it out for analysis. Test results show very high Aluminum, Iron and Copper content. Selling dealer will not respond and Jaguar of North America closed my case. I did put $5000. of purchase on a credit card so I have some leverage. On some other forums, the car manufactures will chime in when there are problems, don't know if that is the case here? Not new to Jaguars, my E type owned 50 years and have a 1999 Xk8. To pursue in court makes no financial sense.
Glenn
#17
Right. Its still 16K miles between changes, meaning an F-Type could go 16,000 miles between changes three times in a row and be in full compliance with lease requirements. And continue that 16K/year change interval every time and call themselves 100% scheduled maintenance. Point being, 12K miles is not that far out of whack. There are still brand new 2018s on autotrader that have no in-service date to begin covered annual oil services. They could hit ~3 years and 16K miles and be considered on schedule.
Factory oil fill happens at the factory when the car is manufactured, then car spends time on the container ship, on the dealer lots and is eventually sold. At that point "fresh" oil is anywhere between 3 to 12 month old. In the case of OP's car, someone drove 3 more years on that oil.
So what happens to that oil? It no longer lubricates as well as it should, incurring extra wear. It is more oxidized, it has more contaminants, and as a result it doesn't flow and respond as well to heat. Does it mean that the engine will fail? No. However, it does mean that these low miles were very hard miles, because for the last two years the oil was too old to properly do its job, hence it would have internal wear comparable to much-higher mileage car.
#18
Carfax did not show any service records. Engine oil analysis was consistent with not having any oil changes for three years.
Oil changes as per Jaguar are required once a year or 16K miles. Jaguar includes free oil and filter changes for three years.
Jaguar dealership service dept. located very close to lease owner.
Oil analysis results. Aluminum=17 normal=9 Iron=31 normal=18 copper=12 normal=3
Normal would be for an oil change at 16K miles. This analysis was done after 1K miles
Glenn
Oil changes as per Jaguar are required once a year or 16K miles. Jaguar includes free oil and filter changes for three years.
Jaguar dealership service dept. located very close to lease owner.
Oil analysis results. Aluminum=17 normal=9 Iron=31 normal=18 copper=12 normal=3
Normal would be for an oil change at 16K miles. This analysis was done after 1K miles
Glenn
#19
So, yes, the car should have had annual oil changes. However, given the low number of miles on the car (respectively for the age), I doubt there was any serious damage caused by that lack of maintenance. It's definitely a downer that it appears the previous owner didn't treat the car a little better but I don't think you are looking at an engine that going to seize up on you in 30 days.
#20
Oil degrades with both miles and time. Neglecting your oil change will result in increased internal wear and sludge.
Factory oil fill happens at the factory when the car is manufactured, then car spends time on the container ship, on the dealer lots and is eventually sold. At that point "fresh" oil is anywhere between 3 to 12 month old. In the case of OP's car, someone drove 3 more years on that oil.
So what happens to that oil? It no longer lubricates as well as it should, incurring extra wear. It is more oxidized, it has more contaminants, and as a result it doesn't flow and respond as well to heat. Does it mean that the engine will fail? No. However, it does mean that these low miles were very hard miles, because for the last two years the oil was too old to properly do its job, hence it would have internal wear comparable to much-higher mileage car.
Factory oil fill happens at the factory when the car is manufactured, then car spends time on the container ship, on the dealer lots and is eventually sold. At that point "fresh" oil is anywhere between 3 to 12 month old. In the case of OP's car, someone drove 3 more years on that oil.
So what happens to that oil? It no longer lubricates as well as it should, incurring extra wear. It is more oxidized, it has more contaminants, and as a result it doesn't flow and respond as well to heat. Does it mean that the engine will fail? No. However, it does mean that these low miles were very hard miles, because for the last two years the oil was too old to properly do its job, hence it would have internal wear comparable to much-higher mileage car.
- Beverly Hills lease (same as my F) implies a more mature sedate driver, even if less conscientious.
- Lower than factory change interval on miles. The calendar change seems self-serving from the oil manufactyrer perspective - I checked the bottles I have and none have a use-by date.
- Our V8/ZF revs a lot lower than most sportscars, so the miles equates to ~half the engine revolutions, maybe a third if comparing to a 9000 red line screamer.
- The analysis is likely still reflecting some break-in metals.
Last edited by RacerX; 03-02-2020 at 09:58 AM.
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