How did things go at Bellevue?

 

Hey guys, I have been reading through the thread and I have the same problem. I have a 2017 MT F-type and quick shifts from 1->2 grind, slip and feel "Klunky". A new issue is 2 times in the last 5 days the car has gotten stuck in gear while driving. Luckily this was in first gear as I was pulling off at normal acceleration from a red light and I was able to pull over. The issue is this, with the ignition on, the car would not shift out of gear, with the car off, I can shift through all gears. I am not sure how to diagnose this as I am unfamiliar with this clutch/drivetrain. I have always had old VW's with simple cable clutch systems.

Of course I have brought my car into Hornburgh Jaguar in Santa Monica CA to trouble shoot; and as stated in the thread above, they can never replicate the issue. I have now made a 3rd appointment a week from now to have them reinspect the clutch, but I am confident they will not find anything worn with it, as the problem is intermittent.

Any recommendations on how to get Jag to fix this? I have called using @Unhingd questions and part #'s above and received the same canned response "bring it in and we will see". What options do you guys think I have here?

thanks

 

The "stuck in gear" symptom is due to parts coming apart. When mine got to that point, there were pieces floating loose which would occasionally lead to the clutch failing to disengage, but when the pieces floated free of the operational workings, it'd work again.

My dealer needed to have their technician see the problem before they would fix it, but eventually I was able to demonstrate it. After that, it was all taken care of. There is a service bulletin on it, and the fact that he bulletin came out after my initial complaint certainly helped.

 

How many miles on the clutch? They probably won’t warranty the clutch after 20k miles, but might deep discount the job as an accommodation, particularly if you bought the car from them.

 

@Unhingd I have 48k on the car, but I am the second owner. There was no report of clutch replacement when I purchased the car with 38k on it. If the car is under Manufacturer warranty why should they not replace it? would the really give me the "wear part" BS?

@lizzardo Wow, I thought that, but I didn't think it would be "that bad", I am hoping when the techs break it apart the can see the damage and replace it. If they replace it I will make sure they use the correct part numbers.

I still have little faith in the techs identifying this issue, if they look at it; and give me the run around, is my only other option to buy a performance clutch? would the whole assembly need to be replaced? or just the clutch?

Second question- I also read about a CDV, I have never had one of these on my previous older model cars. When I do my research I fail to see the need for this. Still not clear on exactly what this does, should this also be removed?

I'm 37 so I dont want to sound old and "krotchety" - but sometimes I feel these cars are over engineered for no reason. Turning a few bolts on this thing makes me question why they do some of this stuff, ie, the "brake mode" for the rear calipers, the Terrible "eclectic handbrake", the "auto stop" feature in a MT.. I mean how the hell am I supposed to do a controlled drift with a button for a handbrake lol

Thanks for letting me vent. I love this sexy car, but sometimes just wish for a little less engineering and more simplified/ smooth driving experience.

@Unhingd P.S 4K miles on the short sifter, Solid purchase, feels great! thanks again.

 

Thanks for the short shifter kudos.
$48k miles is not an unreasonably short lifespan for a hi-po car. Typical wear & tear will be cited. Again, you might be able to get a concession on the replacement cost, however.

 

There's a bulletin attached to this post.

There were loose bits in the bell housing when mine was replaced.

In the old days, you could rev the engine and then side-step the clutch; for entertainment purposes only, of course. You still can, but the delay valve reduces the chance you'll end up with really expensive noises and an undriveable car instead of a satisfying burnout. I think Lance removed his at one point, but after his last clutch replacement didn't bother. He can confirm or refute as necessary. I still have mine in place, and I think the dual-mass flywheel is more irritating than the CDV. Both are designed to reduce the peak shock forces on the driveline, so I put up with them. Previous high performance cars had tires of the period, so usually would slip before mechanical loads exceeded design limits.

 

You are indeed correct. What I at first thought was a CDV issue was really a crappy clutch issue. Disabling the CDV made no discernible improvement. I now have the gen 4 clutch (also my 4th clutch after two gen 1 and one gen 2) with a functional CDV in place that still seems to be working well after 15k miles. When this one wears out, I’ll install the single mass lightened flywheel and stage 2 clutch that Spec built for me.

 

Jaguar Bellevue was not helpful at all. They weren’t willing to even acknowledge the problem.
I ended up going to Jaguar of Lynwood. They bled out the clutch and changed out CDV after first test drive. Not happy with Jaguar of bellevue at all. I went to them for annual service and came back with an exhaust rattle, which took them three visits and 2 weeks to fix. Avoid that place like a plague. Very happy with Jaguar of Lynwood though.
Since then, the clutch is rock solid. I’ve added 15k miles. It’s not the most exciting clutch from feel perspective; feels like a race clutch, but it works. I guess I am the few lucky ones who got the second gen clutch.
I’ve decided to live with it and when the time comes, I’ll decide to go to a 4th gen or whatever unhingd will recommend.

 

What you describe is SECOND generation clutch. They don't tend to fail, but everything else around them does.

I really liked it, but it only lasted 10K or so on my car that I race. Then both transmission and differential failed due to excessive drive line shock due to rapid uptake. Basically, second generation clutch will allow you to exceed maximum allowed rotatum and damage components if you drive it aggressively.

JLR quickly realized this and went on to a different clutch design after seeing failures. JLR asked zero questions about paying for differential and transmission replacements under warranty, they obviously knew about this issue. In my case I started experiencing random gear lockouts out of third gear and started to hear clunk from the rear. Metal in oil was visible to naked eye in both cases.

If you are approaching end of warranty, I strongly recommend you do transmission oil analysis (keep in mind, they don't take gear oil, but special PDK oil!) so you have on record that there were issues with it during warranty. In case it fails shortly after warranty.

 

My warranty expired this month. The car is still at the dealer for a ticking noise from the motor. They’ve ruled out high pressure fuel pumps, sc snout, sc heat exchanger, fuel lines and waiting on JLR to respond to escalation.

Some seals in the rear diff were changed last year. It was making a clunk noise when I’d lift the foot from the accelerator.
Not sure at this point I can do the analysis for transmission oil.
You recon I should ask them to change the clutch out of pocket?

 

If it’s slipping, yes. Otherwise, get your money’s worth, and drive it til it’s burnt up.

 

Sorry no idea if my experiences with second-gen clutch are one off or a pattern. I drive mine very hard, if you don't maybe it will last.

 

No slippage at all. I drive spiritedly but I have too much mechanical empathy to call it “driving hard” 😄

 

Have read through this thread in its entirety.. two nights. I am the second owner of a 2017 vin 35543. Selling dealer replaced clutch with T2R27466 in July of 2020, I purchased in Sept, 2020. F had 24,000 miles on it. I've always driven MTs, American & British. Have put on maybe 1500 miles. Clutch pedal feels good, and found the car prefers shift changes at 3000rpm. Shifts are clean & precise. Notation for "oil service. PDR" on clutch work order. Was this work all done appropriately? Do I have a new clutch/pressure plate, etc. looming in my future?? So sad to read all this! My 69 Es clutch gave it up at 90k miles, my Honda civic had 270000 miles on OE clutch, and 2013 Golf has 60000 on its clutch. The F is a car I never thought I'd be able to own. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread, I learned a lot!!

 

The clutch they installed was the Gen 4 clutch. You are good to go.

 

Upon further review, I see unhinged quoted the part number above as a "Gen 4" My browser search feature let me down.... "Darn Crt F"

Update - I took my F-type in for the third time about the clutch, OF COURSE it needs a new clutch assembly and fly wheel. @48k on the dash its not under warranty. However, I did file a claim with corporate and they are looking to get a deep discount on the fix.

The part numbers provided dont match the numbers @Unhingd provided above for the clutch. Thoughts?

Part Numbers;
Clutch: T2Rs27466
Fly Wheel: T2R20968

@lizzardo @Unhingd - You guys gave great feedback on previous posts of mine, any thoughts on this clutch assembly part #? (the flywheel does match)

As always, thanks guys!

 

I suspect that small s in the clutch part number is a typo as it is atypical of any Jag number I’ve seen, and it otherwise matches the 4th Gen clutch number. The number for the flywheel is indeed correct for the latest ( 2nd Gen) flywheel.

 

When they agreed to replace my clutch on warranty they did not initially include the flywheel, but deemed it necessary on inspection. On removal, they decided to also replace the rear main seal. No extra charge for me, but it did delay the repair by another day or two.

 

At request from my other thread about the discernible vibration in the shifter handle on decel at a specific RPM band...

My original ordeal is in this thread somewhere around December 2017 or January 2018. It appears that I now have a failed Gen 4 clutch. It was not paired to a Gen 2 flywheel since the mileage was so low at the time of the original replacement that Jag apparently only authorized a resurfacing of the Gen 1 flywheel.

Mine will either be flat-bedded in this evening or in the morning since the miles are so close to 60K that I would be at risk of going over by driving it down there. I can only hope that maybe THIS MONTH Jaguar pays attention to what I tried to explain LAST MONTH that SOMETHING was going on with the tranny. I dare them to tell me this is normal...

The first one was replaced inside of 3K miles although the problem showed its head inside of 1K miles. I took delivery in late October 2017 with the car never titled and never in service, with about 300 miles on the clock. The clutch was replaced in late December 2017 as I recall. I now have just shy of 60K miles, almost all of which are highway miles. No track time and very rare with anything resembling shifting at or near redline. I basically commute about 60 miles daily, down from roughly 100 daily.

So...with basic highway driving, this one went about three years and perhaps 57K miles. By contrast, my X-Type went almost 140K miles before the flywheel crapped out, necessitating new flywheel and clutch. The other X-Type went at least 150K miles. My Miata was well into six-figures and my Mustang LX 5.0 got a new clutch at 205K miles (all but 108 put on by me). Even my F-350 4x4 was north of 125K on the original clutch when it was totaled. Suffice it to say, I do a lot of driving but also have a lot of seat time with manual transmissions and what reasonable expectations for clutch life might be).