Don't listen to this guy...you can tell by his advice alone, he has no idea what is going on....

"They are practicing law without a license. That is a crime in every jurisdiction of this country."

Nobody on here is "practicing law," unless of course they sent a bill to the OP.....which I highly doubt.

All my years in law enforcement and yet somehow everyone you have contact with is Johnny Cochran....(Prolly spelled his last name wrong)

 

On top of that he goes on to give the exact same advice that most of "these would be lawyers" gave anyway!

Lawyers, purveyors in human misery!

 

I agree that he should not make a mountain out of a molehill. If you read back on my posts, you will see that all I suggested is that he consult with counsel; and consider having counsel send a letter to the dealer. I never suggested bringing suit.


However you will also find that I referenced the remedies of treble damages and legal fees are available in consumer fraud actions to allow consumers to recoup the cost of suit in "minor" cases. If this is a consumer fraud case. I can't tell from what little info is here, but local counsel could provide that advice.

 

So, did you call the dealership .... $0.05/mile extra comes to $50.00/1000 miles

 

Really? So you actually think that a non-attorney can provide legal services to another person without any issue as long as they do it for free? Wow are you ever wrong.


I see you have spent years in law enforcement. That probably makes you a lawyer wanna be. I saw a lot of that kind over the years. Embarrassed many of them in court when I showed that they did not know the laws they were trying to enforce.

 

Dude. What the hell? Nobody is "providing legal services" by giving their opinion. Are you licensed to practice law in the state that the OP resides in?

I'm a physician. If someone posted a picture of a boil on their *** and citizens of the Internet suggested to treat it by sticking a dirty kebab skewer in it, I cannot imagine the universe where they would be accused of practicing medicine without a license.

Now, if they rented a building, bought a lab coat, hung a sign, and stocked up on kebab skewers...well, that's your cue.

 

I think you want to give some additional thought to your comment. You and I are licensed by our respective states to provide professional services to people who seek us out. Providing professional services without the license is illegal.


Giving advice within our respective fields of licensure is "providing a professional service". If we make a professional error, we can be sued for malpractice. Our training and professional responsibility are why we can offer advice.


It doesn't matter how a layman offers advice; internet, in person, by letter etc. The layman is not trained or licensed by the state to offer advice. To the contrary there are statutes prohibiting such advice.


While I have an extensive medical background, I don't give medical advice; I refer people to Board Certified specialists in the field. I would suggest that you, as a physician, might want to refrain from legal opinions on what constitutes professional practice.

 

If you feel this strongly about the topic, my medical advice is that you not go near any barber shops. The amount of unlicensed professional advice you may be exposed to could be hazardous to your health.

In all seriousness I am not trying to pick a fight. There simply has to be an allowance for normal conversation amongst human beings.

You do realize that tons of trades have licensing authorities? If we were to abide by your terms, I hazard to think what we would even talk about, on this forum or in the real world.

 

It's real simple Rob. We're telling him to find out for himself if this is a legal issue at all.

If you're walking down a sidewalk and trip, you look down to see what you tripped on...Was it a banana peel?, was it the crack?, was it your shoe?, was it a gaping hole missing a manhole cover? Only then can one make an assessment as to who he feels holds culpability. Then he may proceed.

How you could have issue with our "legal" suggestion to advise him to simply make the dealer aware of what even the OP himself refers to as a "typo" is beyond us.

The OP wasn't interested in a civil action whatsoever. It was clear his need for remedy was limited to getting that .25 figure reduced to the original .20. Just as soon as the OP places his phone call to the dealer making them aware of the matter, the sooner his issue will be behind him.

Botton line...

Don't "seek council". Make the call. Let us know their position.

 

Seriously, take a deep breath and calm down.

I don't see anyone giving legal advice here, and I don't believe that expressing an opinion would be considered as providing legal advice - or else god help us all.

As a Brit who relocated to this country some 6 years ago it never ceases to amaze me the first thing people look to do when presented with an issue / challenge to overcome is to look to get an attorney involved.

 

Wow, I didn't intend for this to spark a debate about lawyers! I didn't quite see it as a full-on legal issue at first glance, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the advice of a lawyer nonetheless. I came to the forum to gather any and all opinions, be they legal, from similar past experience, etc.

I contacted a friend of mine that specializes in contract law, and his advice was basically a mix of that in this thread. He said at face-value their behavior seems a bit shady (but don't assume ill will yet), that if it came down to it they would not have a strong legal argument to rescind the original agreement, and to contact them by email only (for record purposes) to inquire if the original $0.20/mile was a legitimate mistake (and why) or if proposing a $0.25/mile revision was a simple clerical mistake.

So, after contacting the finance manager at the dealership, she "read between the lines" and apologized profusely for giving the unintended appearance of ill will (I didn't call them out explicitly, but brought up the fact she only said a "printing error" occurred but in actuality was changing the excess mileage rate). Her reasoning is that they typically finance leases through Chase Bank, which uses $0.20/mile. This time they went with US Bank, which uses $0.25/mile, but the dealership's software didn't make the necessary change when filling out the lease agreement. US Bank rejected the lease agreement due to this oversight, and so the dealership must change it to $0.25/mile in order to proceed. I contacted US Bank to verify, which they did.

It might be a non-issue by lease-end, as I probably won't go over the mileage allotment. And of course I want to keep the car! And of course I want the dealership to get paid. However, it still bothers me, as this sort of incompetency is exactly what I deal with practically every time I get a new car - but revising an agreement after the fact is definitely a first for me. As such, the finance manager offered to have the general manager contact me to discuss further and make things right. Expecting to hear from him today, so we'll see how that goes.

Thanks all, I'll keep you posted

 

That is a ridiculous scenario indeed. Sounds like you need a separate agreement with the dealer that they eat the difference if it comes into play. This is not the customer's problem.

 

Glad to hear there was a simple and logical reason for the change. It would have been nice if the dealer had known about the change in overage rate up front, but this really is pretty deep in the weeds.

It's up to you if you want to insist on some sort if restitution, but personally I'd just move on with life, especially if you don't reasonably expect to ever go over the allowance. Enjoy the car!

 

By the way OP, you absolutely caught the finance manager red-handed. Printing error! I'm surprised you were able to hear anything on the other end of that phone over the noise of backpedaling.

 

Hey thanks for reminding me I need to go to the barber. I think I'll be safe there, as we usually talk about hunting and fishing. After that it is cars! It has come up that at one time barbers also practiced medicine. Now there is a topic for conversation.


As to the issue, I see our man has made contact and probably reached a resolution that suits him, which is good.


As to advice "Premum non nocere". A concept clearly beyond the scope of many opinions expressed here. Yes it is first and foremost a medical standard, but it is equally applicable to legal issues.


Social conversation about legal issues is fine to a point; but then it crosses the line. When you have people speaking in absolutes, as was done here, that is a legal opinion that crosses the line. However I think the real issue here is that so many people think they know the law and don't like it when a lawyer points out how wrong they are.

 

Alright, to wrap things up, here's the final outcome.

I spoke with the general manager earlier, who was also very apologetic for their mistake and totally willing to take all the blame. He reiterated that the financing could not be finalized with US Bank unless $0.25/mile was present on the agreement.

After a bit of chatting, and since the entire lease agreement is effectively negotiable at this point (since it never fully went through), he offered to comp the charges for some small add-ons to the vehicle (totaling about $1k) as a sign of goodwill and to generally prevent the sale from leaving a bad taste in the mouth.

I found this resolution agreeable, and he's having a new lease agreement mailed with the $0.25/mile overage fee present along with all add-on charges removed. Of course I will be reviewing the new document very thoroughly, but I suspect he will make good on his promise.

Again, thanks for the input everyone.

 

There are probably at least a few people on this forum who are familiar
with latin.

I see no advice in the preceding posts which would have done the OP
any harm if he had taken it. In fact, most of it was directed to investigating
the situation before deciding on a course of action.

The persistence of latin in the legal and medical professions is a sore
point. It has no use other than to obfuscate what could be expressed
on plain english. This obfuscation of course is to make the waters
harder to navigate by those not within the privileged circles.

As for contracts in particular, there is nothing better than picking
apart a contract that has been drafted from boilerplate, and reviewed
by multiple lawyers. Each will have added their twist to the wording,
and in the end there will be an exploitable conflict.

Lawyers are neither infallible nor necessarily the brightest in their
class. A law degree means someone was able to get into law
school and pass the bar exam. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

"providing legal services" <- As provided by someone who obviously isn't an attorney.

Anyway, since they said the problem was that the original was legible, just send them back a clean copy of your original. Yes, they're probably trying to correct an oversight, but you've done your part.

 

I've been following this thread (short of the popcorn). Entertaining and informative.

My take: The dealership should have come clean and disclosed the change to the mileage before even attempting to send the lease. The after the fact, kiss and make up goodies are to cover their obvious attempt to slide this by as a printing error. Take the goodies and keep your eyes open my friend (as you obviously did) and enjoy your car. What are the goodies if we may ask?

 

Well said. I'm not a lawyer but I've had several working for me. One of my tasks for many years was drafting and reviewing/approving Contract language, provisions and terms (and yes, I had a lawyer look at them too!) and one thing I always said (with tongue half way into cheek) is that if you want a dissenting legal opinion, all you need to do is ask more than one lawyer!

I have many lawyer friends, some of whom I have worked with for years; great people. I have noticed however that where a Contract is meant as a fair and equitable agreement between two parties, once you get the lawyers involved it typically evolves into something else entirely...

anyhow, sorry for getting further OT.

Cheers,
Dave