Sorry if this comes off as a conspiracy theory but I’m wondering if the JLR dealership’s service shops (and not the actual manufacturer) are responsible for the car’s bad reputation.

Years ago, I was getting my RR repaired at the dealer and was chatting with the service manager about the car’s reputation and if JLR was working to improve things and he said “Why would we need to? People buy these cars despite the repair reputation and they’re in such high demand, we can barely keep our showroom stocked.” I had a series of issues with my RR after the service center suggested I get some work under warrenty done (which I had them do) but that all stopped after I had an Indy shop fix the service center’s work. The Indy shop even pointed out the horrible work the JLR service center had done. I switched from the dealer even though it was still under warrenty because I just got a bad feeling about them and their attitude.

When I purchased the F type, I went to a different JLR dealership service center in my local area to get my incontrol set up and got a load of bs that were complete lies but thanks to this forum, I was able to get a straight answer and was able to set it up at no cost.

After reading a few recent post about others who have taken their cars to dealership service center only to get it back with severe issues, it’s seems like there’s a common theme. Someone else also mentioned that these service center is where some mechanics get their start in their career.

So maybe these cars come from the manufacturers as a solidify built car but it’s the dealership service centers who screw things up and that’s why these cars have issues and the bad rep. Obviously there’s always a car that’s a lemon from the get go but every car manufacturer has some percentage of outliers.

I think that most new car dealerships don’t make a ton of money from selling the cars and it’s their service center and the warrenty work where they make most of their revenue. If I’m wrong on this, I apologize but I’ve heard this several times from different individuals and although I don’t know for sure, it’s sounds reasonable.

I’m curious as to how many members have had chronic issues after taking it to the dealership service center only to have constant warrenty work done one after another.

 

Well, the dealerships are the "face" of JLR to the general public, so yeah, they do have a lot of responsibility for that reputation. That said, JLR should perhaps be more picky in whom they choose to allow to become dealerships, for that very reason. There are good dealers around, but no guarantee your local one will be in that category. Things are a bit different in the UK since Jaguars aren't considered "exotic" (or difficult!) in quite the same way that they're viewed in "foreign parts".

 

I would tell you that JRL products have been littered with random problems over the years, from bad head gaskets on V8 range rovers in the early 2000's to faulty air suspension, bags deflating, squeeking and just low life expectancy. Countless electronic bugs and quality issues like my 2018 Range Rover supercharged straight from the factory have a defective seat control and infotainment system randomly shutting off while driving. My F-Pace S had countless problems like a leaking coolant reservoir and steering column needing to be replaced after 2 years to name a few. They just dont have the quality control and quality engineering that you should get for the money in my opinion. BUT it's hard to beat the looks of a full size Range Rover or F-Type on the streets! The Dealerships certainly have a lack of passion for these products and the mechanics are probably just as bad as anywhere else these days. Ferrari and Lamborghini in my city are the only shops I've never had a service mistake or issue... but I suppose you should expect that!

 

In my work life, I've spent a total of maybe 15 of those years in the "car business", both sales early on, then service. It seems like a lifetime ago. However. Dealerships are only as good as the owner, or more commonly now, the dealer group. Nobody goes into the business hoping to be idiots. It just happens. It trickles down. Just like a lot of businesses. It takes constant hands-on management. There is an enormous turnover. Probably more than most industries. The days of small single-point dealers is over. In New England, we have a few juggernaut size groups that always claim top-notch customer service, but in reality, their "awards" are mostly self generated. Search out the smaller, newer dealers. They're still trying. I bypassed 3 larger franchises to try Bedford JLR in NH last December for an oil service. It was fine. We'll see how that goes.
You are correct about profit. The service end generates far more than the sales end. The finance guy is a hidden weapon, watch out for that office!
True story: I had a Benz customer back in the 80's. He also owned a Rolls. He was expressing his displeasure with the Benz service department: with a German accent: " I expected better from your men. With my Rolls, I EXPECT to get fu***d, not from Benz!"

 

I tend to agree with you (datriani) although I have used the local JLR dealership once and once only and never will again.
Six years ago I took the car in to get the SC coupler replaced under warranty as the car had the definitive symptoms of a worn coupler (rattle and clonk), also checked and confirmed by Cambo here.
I explained what I wanted done but they treated me like an ignoramus, wouldn't listen, shooed me away and said "wait in the customer lounge while we check".
I waited for around three hours then the "service advisor" came back and said "not the coupler, the technician says it's the SC belt tensioner rattling, leave the car here for a few days and we will replace it under warranty and give you a call when it is done". No suggestion of a courtesy car and I had to find my own way home. Four days later I got the call to come in and collect the car so I did. But driving around the next few days and listening to it idle while parked in my garage there was absolutely no change and the tell-tale shut down clonk was still there. So I took the car in again and this time insisted they replace the coupler (in fact the whole snout) and I showed them a printed copy of the JTB. Another four day wait, again no courtesy car, and again I was treated with distain, but at least they performed the JTB this time.
A year or so later I ordered some brake line banjo bolt crush washers from them (they had to order them from across the country in Sydney) but they never got back to me so I gave up and re-used the old ones.
Part of the problem with my local JLR dealership and why they are so snooty is that they are the only game in town, the next closest dealership is over 700 km away on the other side of Melbourne.

 

Never had an issue with my dealer. Work always performed quickly and properly.

There is an adage in the auto (and boat) business. "The sales floor sells the first one; the service dept. sells the rest."

 

There are definitely good dealership service centers out there and I agree with you Davidmaria1. There’s a dealership that’s further away from the 2 closer to me, that has an excellent reputation and it’s not apart of a larger car dealership group. I think someone in another thread mentioned that it’s family owned and operated. The 2 that are closer to me are owned by a large car dealership group and they are horrible.

Supersportmtl, you mentioned the issues with the 2000 RR V8… I think that engine was a BMW V8 that they used. My indy shop mentioned that when I brought my 2012 RR in for service and they said those had a ton of issues but the latter RR V8 after they switched are more well built. I did have the front right air suspension go bad but that was after 120k miles but I chalked that up to normal wear and tear. But damn, you’ve had a lot of issues with your JLR cars but glad you’re sticking with them. Love your videos btw. Thanks for posting those up, very entertaining and informative.

No doubt that JLR has issues with QC and they uncover it after a few years but all manufacturers have the same issue, especially if they’re using other manufacturers parts for like airbags, engines, o2 sensors, etc. Unfortunately we have to take our cars in to have these parts replaced because Takata, BMW and Bosche developed faulty parts but in that process, the JLR dealership service center foul up other things or do a crappy job that causes more warrenty covered issues.

There are definitely good service centers out there but you have to seek them out. Unfortunately, it’s in some people’s nature to exploit any way to make money that they can and this is an easy to prey on individuals who think they don’t have any other options or they feel like JLR are the only experts who can work on these cars so you always come back no matter how painfully frustrating it is.

I guess if anything, my word of caution to new Ftype/JLR owners is to do your research for a good dealership or Indy shop to work on your car. Spend the time to chat with the service manager and see if you get a good vibe, see if they treat you with some level of decency/respect. Nothing worst than getting a new/new to you car only to have a series of issues after you take it in for routine service.

I had a great relationship with my Benz Service manager… partially because I would always slip him a few hundred in a Christmas card every year. Worked wonders and I got a lot of free of charge services done throughout the years and never had a series of issues, just normal wear and tear service.

I thought about buying another Benz before getting the F type just bc of the great service and dependability but after a test drive of my car, I quickly fell in love and there was no other option for me, ha.

 

I used to work in defense aviation, in Field Support, and learned a great deal about human nature. People are the same everywhere, and dealers aren't any different.

You're approaching an unknown social group of a particular owner, managers, and techs. Maybe they'll be a great bunch to deal with, but then the head Service Advisor leaves for another job, replaced by a new guy with different thinking, and half the time it'll be worse. Maybe he came from Ford, or Toyota, or Mercedes, it just doesn't matter. Say you're an awesome Service Manager at a Toyota dealer, so they have great Yelp reviews. Then you get an offer to move to Jaguar, and, and magically, Jaguar service improves greatly, customers are happy, and Jag gains a better brand reputation in spite of the repairs. So yeah... As was said, the main guiding force is the owner, and if they're a corporate entity, expect remote management and an inability to see what's really going on. OTOH, if it's a guy with an office there, it will likely be better. Probably.

An aviation Field Support story: We had a case where one site kept having problems with our aircraft, and eventually figured out that it was only one pilot who kept reporting the problem. Trouble was, he was senior, so all the juniors wouldn't question him, sort of falling into line and saying "yeah, I think maybe I've seen that, too." He moved to a different site and surprise, all the aircraft there started having the same problems. Took a while to convince his bosses that the "problems" were traveling with him. So unfortunately its sort of a crap shoot, and subject to change, good or bad, at any time. All you can do is talk to them first and see the quality of their work.

 

IMHO, most of the Service Managers and Service Mechanics at the dealerships in the USA are ASE certified but not Jaguar/Land Rover specialists. I will give points to local indy shops that specializes in Jaguar/Land Rover because that's what they do for years..

 

David, how are service manager’s performance measured? Is it customer service surveys, average time to fix, mechanic utilization rate, revenue generated, something else or a combination of?

 

I can't say exactly, times have changed, but certainly a combination of the above. I remember that customer surveys carried a lot of weight, but dealers/managers could decide which customers were excluded from the survey. The time to fix, because shops use a flat rate system, first reflected in the techs pay being less due to the call back, so the shops are extremely resistant to correcting their errors. Which is why, when your first concern is not fixed, your 2nd trip to remedy the first, suddenly develops a 2nd new issue that may be help recover the lost profit from the 1st bungle!. Don't laugh, it's probably happened to you already! As far as revenue, that's what matters most, as in any business. There's a lot of costs that are covered by the parts and service dept.,perhaps fuel for the upper level managers demo, spare parts for the owners antique cars, loaner cars are charged back, out of warranty stuff, etc. Let's not get into inventory write downs and hidden factory spiffs (think Presidents Award!) that employees never enjoy, Dude, I've seen loaner cars used for drug deal ripoffs, owners banging housekeeping staff in meeting rooms, hookers after hours, booze in file cabinets, one guy took a customers $5k cash deposit on a new car, went out the back and was never seen again. It's a dirty dirty business. I miss it sometimes!

 

I've been in the headhunting (IT recruiting focused on permanent placement) for about 25+ years and back in the late 90's, early 2000's and it was like Wolf of Wall st as well. The firm I worked for paid commission upon bookings and one guys booked a few deals before leaving and got paid out a ridiculous amount in his last paycheck... fast forward a few months and we figured out they were all fake. The good old days... ha.

 

Maybe we should keep a list of good and not so good JLR dealerships regarding their service? Start a new String. I wish I could start it up but I’m still trying to find a good one in the NYC area.

 

EVERY time my car is left at dealer here I end up with a problem I didn't have before.....including PATHETIC scratches/grease marks on doors, dead battery, scratches on steering wheel, interior, etc

They just built a brand new state of the art dealership here....and yet they take their cars thru a wash that rubs your vehicle. Who is making these insane decisions.

Thankfully I told them NOT to wash my car before I knew that

 

I'm not against dealers. A major advantage of a franchise is the support after a repair. It's usually 12 months parts and labor. I recently had a driveshaft replaced on my wife's Venza at a Toyota dealership for that reason.

 

I spent 30 years at dealership parts and service departments, 23 in management. Rough business, yes. I got out, involuntarily, in 2008. Best thing that ever happened to me. I don't miss it a bit and could never go back. Not in a million years.

Cheers
DD

 

The high turnover naturally has a bad influence on product knowledge. I am 100% sure that many times when people think they've been lied to by the service advisor it's really a case of not knowing. They're misinformed, incompletely informed, confused...or just faking it.

Cheers
DD