......or, get a tune from a company that guarantees that it will cover any work refused because of a tune, e.g., Viezu.

 

By being honest, not acting entitled, building rapport with the service team, and asking a lot of questions.

 

Lance I'm pretty sure he is asking about your polished SC coolant cover!

 

i was thinking the same, after reading all requirements i almost gave up of doing it

 

^Same.
But still good advice.

 

I know this is uncomfortable truth to admit to, but the dealer lied (explicitly or by omission) on your behalf to JLR. In my mind, there is no doubt whatsoever that if JLR knew about your mods, they would not have authorized the repair. No manufacturer would.

You positioning yourself as "being honest ... and asking a lot of questions" is bad advice in your circumstances and your result is very atypical. The expected outcome in your scenario, where JLR knows about tune, is denied warranty claim. What happened to you is similar to winning the lottery. I am glad you did, good things happening to good people, but please don't mislead others into thinking this is the expected outcome.

 

Apologies, I didn't explain this very well. I was wondering what you did to get a shiny engine.

 

We have had customers who have had major engine failures replaced by JLR under warranty, with tuning fully disclosed because it was a 'known' issue (failure to warn of low oil and starvation to the main bearings due to virtually no oil in the engine. In another instance, a 'known' issue on some of the early V6 engines not spraying oil correctly in the crankcase.) We would never advise someone that this is an 'expected' outcome. We advise all our potential and subsequent customers that there are risks involved, and that modifications can be used as a reason to deny (legitimate) warranty issues. However it's not accurate to say as a blanket statement that JLR would not authorize repair if they knew the car was modified and the dealer lied.

 

The expected outcome when finding a chunk of piston missing is JLR denying warranty repairs if they know about the tune. This is not limited to Jaguar or VAP, only explicitly approved tuners like Shelby and Ford are exempted. To best of my knowledge Jaguar does not currently have any explicitly approved tuners. Some independent tuners, like Roush, offer their own warranty in place of voided OEM warranty.

In US, Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act provides some protection to consumers in cases of warranty denial, so it is not impossible to sue and win. However, Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does not cover legal fees or garage fees for independent assessment of the engine failure- so even if you win you are on the hook for lawyer's and mechanic's fees.

JLR warn you about conditions attached to the new car warranty upfront by making black-and-white statement in the warranty coverage. Read it yourself if you don't believe me. If your car is flagged as tuned, this is game over for your drivetrain warranty claims - you will have to sue to get anything done. I believe warranty work declined automatically in such cases, so any Jaguar dealer anywhere trying to file warranty work would be declined. They might still do goodwill repairs, but I think that is capped at $500. I don't think JLR tool automatically reports tuned cars to HQ and I don't think JLR tool automatically detects tuned cars that at the moment running stock tune. Both require someone at the dealer to manually do checking and reporting. This can happen as part of JLR investigation into the claim or during regular maintenance if they have a reason to dislike you. What this means, is that if you take steps to hide your tune, it is by no means certain that dealer/JLR will check for it and you may get warranty coverage that way. However, there is no ambiguity when they know (i.e. blackflaged car) - even Queen of England would have had her warranty claim denied in such circumstances, so it does not matter how nice you are or how much your dealer likes you and wants to help.

Stuart, while you are here, can you tell me why you recommend your customers to revert to stock tune when taking the car to the dealer for various patches? What is it about your maps, which is just a small part of entire ECU firmware, is incompatible with OEM patches? That is, what actually happens if you try to write some KB into VAP tuned ECU with an active VAP tune using Jaguar Dealer's tool?

My understanding the key reason for your advice is to avoid getting your clients blackflaged as tuned. Is this inaccurate understanding or is there a technical reason why patches are incompatible with VAP tune?

 

I believe I got the explanation from Chris, but perhaps it was Stuart. It's not that it's incompatible, but that there is a checksum (a signature of sorts, to the non-firmware savvy). That checksum applies to the whole image. If a partial update is applied, the checksum would be updated based on what it expected in the rest of the image. If the file is not original, the new checksum will not match the actual calculated checksum when the image is loaded, and the ECU would not function, i.e. it would be "bricked."

To avoid this the stock image is loaded beforehand, then sent again to the tuner to have the modifications applied. The new checksum is recalculated based on the actual image, not on expected portions.

 

This is exactly what we advise our customers. Very likely to be denied but not always the case.

As above, we advise that you should expect loss of warranty coverage but 'game over' and 'you will have to sue' are both flatly incorrect. We've seen otherwise multiple times.

Incorrect. The ECU flags a code which states that the vehicle is tuned, and this code does not go away when flashing back to stock. The dealer diagnostic system connects automatically to HQ.

We don't.

Nothing

It updates the software on the ECU per JLR's latest spec.

Your understanding is inaccurate. Our end-user tools are paired to one vehicle software version at a time. They can only be unpaired if they are used to flash the OEM software back to the vehicle first. If you (perish the thought!) had purchased and installed an ECU Tune from us, and you then went to the dealer and they updated the software, you would now be unable to flash the tune to the vehicle(it would recognize a different version.) If you tried to erase and reset the flashing tool it would not allow you to do so, because as far as the tool is concerned, your vehicle is tuned (the last thing it did was to flash the MOD file to the car.) Now you have to purchase a new programmer because the old one is a paperweight. If you want to preserve your programmer's functionality, you can flash back to stock, and if the software is updated it will allow you to erase the programmer and start from scratch at which point we update your (clearly imaginary) tune for the updated OEM file version.

 

I for one could not be happier with my VAP tune (the extra 38-40 hp is nice but especially getting my “snap, crackle & pops” back) and the way in which VAP—Stuart and Chris—“operate”. IN MY OPINION they are a first-class operation. Speaking of “first-class” class acts, UNHINGD.

 

Have you ever read the fine print on that? Way back when I was a Viezu customer (a decade or more ago) it was actually a 3rd party insurance policy. There's a whole load of conditions that have to be fulfilled for it to pay out, and there's a cap on individual claim payouts as well as total $$$ value of payouts for the policy. I actually looked into setting this up for our company and concluded that it was something that would allow us to SAY we had coverage, but I was not convinced it would actually provide satisfactory coverage.

 

I did not know that dealer's tool automatically reports tuned vehicles to JLR HQ when dealer's tool connected to OBD port for any reason. Thank you for correcting my mistake here.

Is this the case for newer ECUs or all of them? Is this the case for all dealer tools or only newest one?

When my F-type was new, I had a chance to play with dealer's tool. It wasn't the case back then - I explicitly asked service manager as I was considering tuning. He showed me menu check that had to be performed - it took few button presses to get to the 'tuned' code. That was before I knew about thermal issues and drive train weakness that had me reconsider tuning my F-type.

Considering my post history, you might think I am categorically against tuning. This is not the case - my track car is obviously modified and it includes tunes. I just think it is very bad idea to tune F-type, doubly so when combined with over-revving SC.

 

😂 haha I'm dying

tune police 🚔 on patrol

 

As long as it remains civil, this is an interesting and useful discussion. In my case, I have the tune only, which made a minor difference going from 380 to 415ish (or whatever the number is.) I expect I'll install the crank pulley when I'm equipped to do it myself. How often would I expect to hit the 450HP number? Likely never. For me, the most fun is on twisties where 3rd & 4th gear (AT) are ideal, maybe between 25-55MPH. Having the engine in the SC torque band so there's instant thrust when I put my foot down is awesome. I'd love to have a bit more of that (torque) in that range, and overdriving the SC a bit should give exactly that (I think.) I rarely get near the rev limiter, so I don't think I'm asking for more max power, just more power where I want it. (If I'm wrong on this, feel free to correct me. )

This, of course, doesn't apply to everyone. But I would hope that those tracking, racing, and hooliganing (that should be a word) would have an understanding of the risks. If not, they should read this thread.

 

Everybody has different priorities I think. I'm a long time hooligan who bought a RWD base V6 used for the price of a well equipped Toyota, with every intention of modding it pretty much immediately.

This discussion happens in every car community in my experience. Maybe not as seriously as this thread though.

Nothing much different here than tuning a BMW/Porsche/Audi/Whatever and tons of people do it knowing there's risks involved.

Personally, I'm gonna have a gorgeous rwd supercharged roadster w/ an LSD and 450hp/440lbs-tq for the price of a hooked up Camry... and even though it's got 2 years and 30k miles left on the warranty, in the unlikely event I blow up the V6.. I could probably stick a used v8 in there and still have barely reached the price of a brand new 4cyl model.

 

No problem...sometimes I don’t understand very well.
My process was as follows to limit the car’s downtime to just a couple hours.
1. Purchased a used cover(including air side exchangers) on eBay.
2. Plugged all holes and taped over the entirety of the two exchangers.
3. Sent it out to a silver polishing shop to polish the surface.
4. Sent it to my PPF & Ceramic Pro specialist for a quartz coat.
5. Swapped the Original cover/exchanger with the polished one after removing tape and plugs.

The 2 exchangers cannot be removed from the underside of the cover.

 

The downside of tuning - I can’t go back to OEM power levels 😂

 

I have been running a VAP stage 3 tune on a V8S for 10k miles. The only issue I have had with the car/tune is occasional belt slip, which is rare and I'm happy to put up with. My car is a late 2013, and obviously out of warranty. My only 'worry' is not the tune, but that I have an AJ133 w an older style timing chain.

Should that fail, or say I have another cooling line failure or what have you and I end up replacing the motor (again), I wouldn't hesitate to tune it again.

To me the car is super special. 600+ horsepower, RWD. I giggle every day.

I guess its all about what speaks to you and what you are willing or can afford to pay for it.