Herman,
Yes, I have an auto F-Type not a manual so these clutch mods are not relevant to me.
BUT, I suspect many (most?) F-Type manual owners who would be interested in these clutch mods and are prepared to pay for them would also be very likely to have already applied or be thinking of applying the VAP lower/crank pulley and tune mod, or the upper pulley as well mod. These mods take the V6 to 440 / 450 ft/lbs of torque so already in excess of the proposed Porsche friction disc so maybe a stronger one will be needed?
Just sayin'!

 

Good point. People will always want more capability.
More than 450 ft-lbs of torque capacity from the present design would probably require a different friction disk and pressure plate.
Because the flywheel design will be able to accept various 9.5" OD friction disks (240 mm) and pressure plate pairs, a "high torque" kit is still a future option.

Just for kicks, what is the Gen4 Jaguar clutch kit capable of processing? Does it slip under a full throttle engagement in today's tuned manual V6 F-Types?
Anyone with a tuned V6 manual out there have any input?

From my experience with my 340 PS manual, the Gen2 Jaguar clutch has trouble putting down 50% of peak throttle (less than 200 ft-lbs?).
So I tend to engage the clutch fully under light throttle, before applying the beans. This method helps to keep the clutch cool and it is able to transfer the full engine torque once fully engaged.

On a side note: the torque transfer capacity rating for a clutch during slip engagement is not a static number.
It will change over the life of the clutch and flywheel surface. So do we design for Beginning of Life, or End of Life?

At least this single mass flywheel design will give us a solid platform on which to test future options.

 

Great work HermanWiegman! Thanks! I'd like to be able to shift aggressively in the car someday. For now I can only granny shift to keep the clutch from slipping.

 

I have a MY2017 V6 with the 6 speed. I bought the car in fall of 2020 with 24,000 miles on it. The selling dealer was up front about having replaced the clutch and provided the parts/labor, etc. documentation as well as a 4 month warranty on top of the remaining 18 months factory warranty. As a lifelong 3 pedal driver, I did question why a 24,000 mile vehicle would have needed a new clutch, and their response was an incompetent PO. Although I thought I had assiduously researched issues with Fs on this forum, the clutch issue escaped me. When I found that Clutch Satisfaction thread, I definitely had an OS, WTFDIGMI moment. Thanks to members here, I found that the selling dealer had indeed installed the 4th G clutch.
The 2017 now has 36,000 miles on it. While I don't track it, and it's not tuned, I do have fun getting to speed on on-ramps, as well as speedy passes. My driving style is that I take it to 3000 rpm in any gear before shifting, regardless of what the green arrow indicates. I also frequently downshift as needed (collateral damage from Bob Bondurant driving schools, LOL ) As yet, I have not had any issues with this clutch, but am not so naive as to not have a "Reserve for Replacement Savings Acct" for this car.
While my 1998 Civic 5 speed still had its original clutch when I sold it at 270,000 miles, I will definitely keep your project in mind for potential replacement on the 2017.
Thank you for all your efforts!

 

@BONESTOCK Take this time of “granny shifting” as a lesson in being nice to the car.
Phill Hill and Jim Clark were well known for being “gentle” to their F1 cars and they often won races (Le Mans, etc) because of it.

@Valerie Stabenow Sounds like you have great technique based on the Honda Civic clutch life, so I hope you have many more years of care free driving on your Gen4 Jaguar (Sachs XTend) clutch.

The only time my clutch sees aggressive use, is with maximum acceleration from zero speed (auto cross event) and during tire spinning engagements (only to impress my nephew’s classmates, and with DCS off). As it turns out, track events are really just like spirited driving on the normal roadway… just a bit quicker and in a better controlled environment.

In either case, I’ll keep you posted on the development of this new flywheel and clutch option for the F-Type

 

Well...here's what I'm used to being able to do. But I guess I have to drive it more like my wife's daily Hyundai Veloster that we just sold with 250K miles on the original clutch. I can drive both ways but was hoping I could shift spiritedly in this sports car. Not trying to drag race like I do in my Mustang but at least be able to do pulls on the highway and not lose so much speed/time between shifts waiting for the clutch to decide to engage.

 

Does anyone have the bulletin regarding the clutch issues that I could use to perhaps replace mine in my 2017? Thanks.

 

Update:
I just received an e-mail from Jordan at Aasco Motorsports that they have completed the design and parts build up for a Jaguar F-Type Manual.
This initial kit includes a single mass flywheel, clutch and some hardware.
The clutch is rated up to 400 ft-lbs of torque.
This initial kit is being offered to me at about $2500 … and a discount price of about $1900 for quantity 5 or more.
So spread the word and see who in F-Type Manual Land is in need of a new clutch or flywheel and interested in a performance boost.

Note: I am drafting an evaluation criteria which will assess quality, driver experience, and performance, so look here for more updates.

Herman

 

Update: Jan 2023
Aasco Motorsports has completed the manufacture of the light weight, single mass flywheel, and has the matching clutch and pressure plate.
I will be installing them later in February. First I want to do some baseline testing and video of the clutch in my car (gen 2 clutch, and gen 1 flywheel?).
My evaluation will assess quality of manufacture, driver experience, and performance.

Herman

 

Update: Feb 2023
I have received the first article single mass flywheel and clutch kit from Aasco Motorsports.
The first article looks great. All dimensions are spot on, save for one bolt head clearance behind the Reluctance/Tone wheel.
I will install this kit on my 2017 F-Type base model manual (340 hp) later this month.
(I also have a parallel project to design build a Helical Geared LSD that may catch up with this flywheel and clutch project.
See thread: /interest-helical-gear-differential-development-266193/ )

The Aasco Motorsports flywheel is lighter than OEM by 13 lbs, which is a 35% reduction from the OEM's hefty 37.5 lbs mass.
The Aasco clutch kit (from Sachs ) is simpler (non-adjustable) and also lighter by 4 lbs, a 22% reduction from the OEM's 18 lbs mass.
So expect a noticeable change in engine responsiveness, and faster shift times over OEM.
Below is an initial picture.
More to come after test fit later in February.


Aasco Motorsports single mass flywheel and sprung clutch kit.. first articles for test.

 

Update:
Today’s post is about the parts removed from my 2017 Manual transmission F-Type

• What did a 2017 F-Type Manual get for parts?
• And how are the latest OEM parts better?

My OEM clutch and flywheel were recently removed from my F-Type in order to trial fit the new Aasco Motorsports single mass flywheel and clutch. Expect a report on that installation next week.

Today Jaguar is supporting sales of their 2nd gen flywheel and 4th gen clutch and pressure plate. I have a set of these on hand for comparative purposes.
It appears my 2017 car has the 2nd gen flywheel and 2nd gen clutch and pressure plate. My car's clutch struggled to transfer torque at 1/2 throttle before it would slip and the reason is revealed in the parts.
The early pressure plate have weak fingers and possibly a faulty self-adjuster which would not adapt to the wearing clutch disk.
Below is a parts comparison and some photos.

summary of 2017 vs. the latest parts from Jaguar

two 2nd gen flywheels (used and new)

used 2nd gen pressure plate and new 4th gen pressure plate

 

Preliminary Report:
Many of you with V6 MT's are wondering how the initial testing of the Aasco Motorsports single mass flywheel and clutch kit went.
Here is my preliminary assessment based upon 100 miles of driving between snow storms.

• First, when starting the engine, you notice a 50% increase in clutch pedal effort
  • this is rational as the pressure plate is rated for more torque than OEM
  • I got used to the increased pedal effort after 10-minutes
• Second, you realize the clutch engagement location is at the same point on the pedal travel
  • this is rational as the pressure plate and release bearing locations are stock
• Third, you notice the ease of clutch modulation
  • not as smooth as the OEM, but able to modulate torque to creep over 2x4’s
  • no surprises here as the organic clutch has good friction characteristics
• Forth, is the bubbly nature of the engine and how it jumps with throttle input
  • this is when you realize there is something special going on here
  • less mass = less inertia = quicker throttle response
• Fifth, is the joy of shifting through the gears.
  • The high RPM shifts are glorious and they finally match the symphony of the exhaust
  • This is what transforms the F-Type into a modern sports car
• Sixth, is the ability to put down some serious torque
  • Especially if your car was suffering from an early generation OEM clutch with limited grip
  • This clutch can be slipped at max torque and then engaged to over come rear tire grip
    (best done with DSC = off, or TracsDSC = on)
• Seventh, is when you slow down, shift into sixth and realize there is a compromise
  • There is a low RPM resonance which emanates from the rear axle mount and trunk area around 1500 RPM
  • It sounds like the rear trunk is going to rattle apart, when you lug the car in high gear and slow speed
  • A less noticeable resonance occurs when the engine passes through 3000 RPM
  • There is a mechanical resonance mode in the rear independent suspension and axle mounting system at 75 Hz

I am still surveying the location of the rear end resonance, but I think the resonance is excited by the V6 engine’s three torque pulses per revolution. The OEM Dual Mass Flywheel presents a “third order” filter which is effective at attenuating the engine’s torque ripple from reaching the solid mounted rear axle frame. The new Single Mass Flywheel presents a simpler “first order” filter which is less effective at attenuating the engine’s torque ripple. The lightweight flywheel and clutch does connect the engine to the rear end with "more authority", but alas.. there is a noise-vibration-&-harshness (NVH) issue due to the amount of torque ripple reaching the rear axle assembly.

To summarize, the single mass flywheel is a compromise that favors track day driving where the engine will be consistently rev'ed and shifted above 3000 RPM.

I will look into other means to make the single mass flywheel work; e.g. dampen the torque pulsations with rubber isolated driveshafts, or dampen the resonance with mount bushings or rigid braces.

I will also look into other ways of keeping the attenuation properties of the OEM dual mass flywheel, while also achieving quicker throttle response. Perhaps a lightened DMF approach.

My hope and dreams of finding a balance are being motivated by the glorious moments of driving with the lightweight flywheel on Vermont back roads with the threat of winter storms over my shoulder.
I know our F-Types can be both a sports car and grand tourer. Join me in the quest!

 

I was just thinking of two solutions:
1) A heavier Single Mass Flywheel.
This would not offer the same torque ripple attenuation as the Dual Mass Flywheel, but it could be enough to cover up the resonance in the light weight flywheel system.
The SPEC single mass flywheel was about as heavy as the OEM Dual Mass Flywheel, so one could argue it gave enough torque ripple attenuation to avoid low RPM resonance.
One Forum member had the SPEC flywheel and a "Stage 4" clutch that didn't give satisfactory results, but for different reasons. The high friction Stage 4 pressure plate and clutch probably made it almost undrivable. A Stage 2 clutch kit may have been preferable.

2) Adding lightness to the Dual Mass Flywheel to achieve both the benefit of the "third order" filter, but also a lighter system to "brighten" the high RPM shifting.
More to come...

 

Second Opinion:
I had a chance to log a few more hours in my 2017 V6 MT Coupe, equipped with the Aasco Motorsports lightweight single mass flywheel and Sachs Racing clutch kit.
The drive took me over the mountains and through the woods... literally. I had a good time and really enjoyed the benefits of the lightweight flywheel.
But I was also able to map out when the Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH) issues permeated into the rear cargo area as a function of gear, throttle and engine speed.
Here are the observations.

• Engine Speed & Throttle Sweeps in each Gear
  • first through third gear do not excite any NVH issues
  • forth gear presents a small NVH issue at 1750 RPM when near full throttle
  • fifth gear presents a mild NVH issue around 1500 RPM when at half throttle or more
  • sixth gear presents a crescendo of NVH centered around 1300 RPM when above quarter throttle
• Source of the NVH
  • the NVH comes from the rear truck area and at full excitation, can shakes the rear hatch
  • dividing the engine speeds from the above observation by the gear ratio points to a resonant mode at 75 Hz in the rear of the car
  • this is probably due to a resonant mode in the rear axle mount and sub-frame connection points to the underside of the body shell
  • the mode is excited by the engine's torque ripple which features three pulses per engine revolution and is proportional to the throttle command
• Clutch chatter at idle
  • I did notice some clutch "chatter" noise when the engine is idling in Neutral and the clutch pedal is up.
  • the noise goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed.
  • this seems to be a common issue in cars converted over to a light weight, single mass flywheels (from a dual mass system)
• Mystery noise at 3000 RPM?
  • in my previous post, I mentioned some NVH at 3000 RPM
  • I was not able to reproduce this in the above sweeps
  • but I think it was due to the stereo's bass, which can cause vibrations in the cargo area
  • that is a common F-type problem that I will look into in the warmer months
• Clutch Pedal Feel
  • previously I reported on how the new clutch felt required more effort than the OEM setup
  • on this drive (my second major outing on the new Aasco set up) I didn't really notice the heavier clutch effort ... it felt "normal" and "natural,"
  • so easy to get used to
• Driving Experience
  • it is great to have the lightweight flywheel and it pairs well with the engine
  • the engine rev's build up more quickly than the RPM gage reports.
  • I had to adjust how quickly I modulated the throttle and how much to blip the throttle on down shifts.
  • very fun, very engaging.
  • To avoid the NVH I simply had to keep the engine above 1750 RPM, which is easily done
    • I did have a habit of keeping the car in 6th gear all the way down to 40 MPH, which now excites the NVH

I think adding back some weight to the lightweight flywheel will help reduce the magnitude of the observed NVH.
Perhaps 20% more mass could eliminate the NVH witnessed in 4th & 5th gear, and reduce the magnitude of the NVH in 6th gear.
I am also looking at drive shaft isolators which can help reduce torque ripple transfer to the rear axle.

I will get back to Aasco Motorsports and update the flywheel specification to a slightly higher mass.
(note: the SPEC aluminum flywheel offering is close to the mass of the OEM dual mass flywheel... did that unit present any NVH?)

Picture: back face of Aasco lightweight flywheel where there are lightweight cut outs that can be eliminated.
Picture: map of the NVH vs. gear and engine RPM



NVH map vs gear and RPM

 

Really nice write up. You are one of the few who walk the talk when it comes to clutch and diff mods. I am enjoying following your progress. Great work.

 

Third Opinion:
Welcome back Jag Forum Folks.
Thanks for your encouragement on this journey to find the best combination of spirited driving joy, and grand touring luxury for our V6 Manual F-Types.
Here is a quick summary and proposed path forward.

• I engaged Aasco Motorsports to custom build a light weight aluminum flywheel for our F-Types (-35% mass)
• We worked up a clutch solution that could process 400 ft-lbs (540 Nm) of torque, based on SACHS Performance parts from various Porsches
• the kit was installed in my 2017 and it gave great high RPM performance, but failed to dampened torque pulsations at low RPM when in 5th & 6th gears
• I looked around and uncovered a potential solution, a "softly sprung" friction disc

Here is the back story on the potential solution.
The Dual Mass Flywheel (a sandwich of two flywheels with torsion springs in between) is a great torque pulsation attenuator.
So much so, that the OEM Jaguar friction disk was "rigid" (no torsion springs in the clutch)... see below photos.
The team at Aasco Motorsports selected a relatively stiffly sprung friction disk to mate up with the new Single Mass Flywheel, a common approach for old Porsches.
Meanwhile, I found a different approach from Advance Clutch Technology (ACT) who offer a "softly sprung" friction disc for an Audi S4 application.
This Audi S4 application was for the same predicament we find ourselves in: a conversion from DMF to a lighter Single Mass Flywheel. See photos below.

The "rigid" friction disc offers no torque pulsation attenuation. (doesn't have to, as the DMF does all the filtering, with up to +/- 60 degrees of rotational displacement)
The "stiff spring" friction disc offers limited attenuation, sufficient only to handle impulse torques, and offers about +/- 5 degrees of rotational displacement
The "soft spring" friction disk offers moderate attenuation of torque pulsations, and offers about +/- 17 degrees of rotational displacement

But alas... the ACT clutch disc is "out of stock" or "back ordered" or "obsolete"
Breaking news; I just called ACT and they have all the components in hand and can make the custom clutch.
We're back in business.

Note: Exedy has also produced softly sprung clutch discs, but not with the proper spline or disc diameter.. so that may be a dead end.

 

Quick Update:
Welcome back Jag Forum Folks.
I was able to procure a clutch disc that is "softly sprung" to help with the NVH issues of the lightweight, Single Mass Flywheel.
ATC produced and shipped the special clutch as promised. This process took about a month.

Unfortunately I am moving from VT to RI, and I have other projects in the works.. see my Helical Limited Slip Diff thread.
So I am not certain when I will have time to pull my transmission and install this promising clutch disc.
Not unless someone has a nice transmission jack and a six pack of beer to offer up to the clutch gods.


ATC technologies softly sprung clutch for single mass flywheel conversions

 

Update June 2023:
I am still driving my 2017 V6 Premium MT with the Aasco Motorsports light weight, single mass flywheel and SACHS pressure plate and organic clutch.
I have not been able to find time to install the ATC Performance friction disk with softer springs (to address the NVH at low speeds and high gear).
Instead, I have been gleefully driving back and forth between VT and RI... 250 miles one-way, mostly highway, but the clutch and flywheel are doing fine.

More Torque?:
Some of you (ok just @Unhingd ) have also requested a clutch solution that can handle more than 400 ft-lbs of engine torque.
The pressure plate in the above set up is a SACHS Type MF228X/MF240 which has pretty good torque handling capabilities.
SACHS also has a pressure plate which came on some diesel powered cars that handles more torque, but which probably also has a higher spring pressure and more pedal effort.
This alternate pressure plate is also a Type M250E which is an "extended life" or self-adjusting pressure plate which does require some special tools to mount it to the flywheel.
See below table for the pressure plate I am using (top) in my stock 340PS car with no clutch slip issues, and an alternate for folks who want a bit more torque handling capability.
It may be better to stick with the simple Type MF240 pressure plate, and explore sintered iron friction disks instead for more torque handling.


SACHS Performance pressure plates

Moving:
I will be moving from Vermont to Rhode Island over the next month, so I will be packing up my tools and parts, and then setting up a new garage work shop.
Also good news, I will be reducing my work hours to 2 days / week, so I will have more time.

 

More Torque?:
I have found a friction disc with sintered iron pucks that has the correct size. @Unhingd
This should extend the torque handling capability to >550 ft-lbs, but may also be a bit more "grabby" due to the higher coefficient of friction
240 mm (9.4") OD
23 spline shaft
25 mm (1" ) shaft OD

And it also features the same "soft springs" that I will try on my organic clutch disc from ATC to help reduce chattering and NVH at lower RPM.
ACT Race Clutch Discs 6240208 from Summit Racing. for $180.

ACT Clutch Disc 6240208

 

Just a quick update from my end…

1) I have finally moved from VT to RI… and have been setting up my garage again.
2) I am also developing a helical torque biasing differential with Quaife in the UK…
3) I hope to do two upgrades in one operation…
A) remove the OEM rear differential, and upgrade to the Quaife helical unit
B) remove the manual transmission and swap in the ATC friction disc with “soft springs”
C) do all of the scheduled oil and fluid changes

This will probably take place in November when I take the F-Type off the road for the winter / salt season.
But I promise to find a day to assess the Noise/Vibration/Harshness of the new soft sprung friction disc and report out to the Forums.
I am hoping to find that balance between race track edge, and grand touring elegance.

The next step will be the development of a “kit” so others with Manual Trans can opt for this option, rather than sign up for the Jaguar DMF solution.