F-Type Handling
#21
08-13-2016, 10:34 PM
#22
08-13-2016, 10:40 PM
#23
08-13-2016, 11:39 PM
#24
08-14-2016, 01:07 AM
Seems to have worked fine on the XF so ?????
Original thread here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...pgrade-141963/ along with the comments from the XF owner who first got these bars made.
Original thread here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...pgrade-141963/ along with the comments from the XF owner who first got these bars made.
#25
08-14-2016, 11:08 AM
Going from hollow to solid is not really an upgrade. Looking at the bar as a cross section, the inner portion provides almost no torsional strength and just adds overall weight to the unit. The outside portion of the cross section, and overall diameter is what's important as sway bars are twisted rather than bent.
#26
08-14-2016, 04:20 PM
Hi everyone,
Not sure if this has been discussed, I went back several pages and didn't really see anything on there.
When I purchased my car I asked for the tech's to give me as much camber as possible during the PDI alignment. When I spoke to the service advisor he said that camber is not adjustable and that if I do change the camber the warranty is void.
I am a pretty careful person when it comes to picking my battles, so I let this particular comment slide (nothing would have been gained by pointing out the utter stupidity of the comment coming from what they were saying was a professional) but in doing research I found that there really isn't much that can be done to correct the camber with aftermarket pieces at this time.
Personally I have never had an experience where adjusting alignment would do anything to a car (within reason... Stancing it or putting in strange numbers could obviously affect AWD, wear and tear of suspension pieces etc...) so I found this comment rude and unnecessary. I believe that with a change to around -2 - -2.5 degrees of camber, turn in would be improved and understeer would be reduced safely (at the expense of insignificant tire wear), and help the nose heavy car rotate with more control. Has anyone found camber bolts or plates that can achieve this for the front end? I read somewhere that Jaguar has shims to bring camber back within spec, but I would rather not go to a solution like that.
Also, has anyone found any ways to improve the handling of the car and make it more responsive and stable? I have seen the thread on the Michellin PS2, and had that on my 2013 Porsche Carrera 2S with an amazing improvement, so I know that helps. I have also spoken to Stuart at AP Velocity about the lowering springs (not a great solution to a car that goes over a big driveway curb and will likely see winter driving). Is there anything else I am missing?
I am pretty content with the car as it is as the handling makes you "work" for it a bit more (unlike the evo X which did everything for you), and I like that, but I am finding the car a bit hard to predict.
Thanks in advance for all comments and suggestions!
Sincerely,
Breaker
Not sure if this has been discussed, I went back several pages and didn't really see anything on there.
When I purchased my car I asked for the tech's to give me as much camber as possible during the PDI alignment. When I spoke to the service advisor he said that camber is not adjustable and that if I do change the camber the warranty is void.
I am a pretty careful person when it comes to picking my battles, so I let this particular comment slide (nothing would have been gained by pointing out the utter stupidity of the comment coming from what they were saying was a professional) but in doing research I found that there really isn't much that can be done to correct the camber with aftermarket pieces at this time.
Personally I have never had an experience where adjusting alignment would do anything to a car (within reason... Stancing it or putting in strange numbers could obviously affect AWD, wear and tear of suspension pieces etc...) so I found this comment rude and unnecessary. I believe that with a change to around -2 - -2.5 degrees of camber, turn in would be improved and understeer would be reduced safely (at the expense of insignificant tire wear), and help the nose heavy car rotate with more control. Has anyone found camber bolts or plates that can achieve this for the front end? I read somewhere that Jaguar has shims to bring camber back within spec, but I would rather not go to a solution like that.
Also, has anyone found any ways to improve the handling of the car and make it more responsive and stable? I have seen the thread on the Michellin PS2, and had that on my 2013 Porsche Carrera 2S with an amazing improvement, so I know that helps. I have also spoken to Stuart at AP Velocity about the lowering springs (not a great solution to a car that goes over a big driveway curb and will likely see winter driving). Is there anything else I am missing?
I am pretty content with the car as it is as the handling makes you "work" for it a bit more (unlike the evo X which did everything for you), and I like that, but I am finding the car a bit hard to predict.
Thanks in advance for all comments and suggestions!
Sincerely,
Breaker
As to your requested - impossible to implement on a Manufacturer Warranteed vehicle - geometry, 3 degrees might not trash the tyres by itself, but the toe setting necessary to make it driveable might.
So... HTH.
#27
08-14-2016, 04:25 PM
#28
08-14-2016, 09:15 PM
#29
08-14-2016, 11:15 PM
#30
08-14-2016, 11:18 PM
Going from hollow to solid is not really an upgrade. Looking at the bar as a cross section, the inner portion provides almost no torsional strength and just adds overall weight to the unit. The outside portion of the cross section, and overall diameter is what's important as sway bars are twisted rather than bent.
#31
08-15-2016, 12:20 AM
The front OEM bars are all 32mm hollow, there are four different versions, until all the versions are tested for stiffness and cut up to see the wall thickness we can only guess as to which OEM part is stiffer. My assumption is that they have different wall thickness' therefore different stiffness. But which is which is unknown.
And then there's only one aftermarket option, it's been fitted to two vehicles that I know of, the owners of both vehicles have given positive feedback that the handling of the car has been improved. One XF, one XJ.
Trying to get down into the science of how, why, etc, it's pointless for now, the options are take it or leave it.
With the very limited scope of aftermarket performance products for Jaguars, you have to take what you can get, you do it yourself, or nothing.
I'm out!
And then there's only one aftermarket option, it's been fitted to two vehicles that I know of, the owners of both vehicles have given positive feedback that the handling of the car has been improved. One XF, one XJ.
Trying to get down into the science of how, why, etc, it's pointless for now, the options are take it or leave it.
With the very limited scope of aftermarket performance products for Jaguars, you have to take what you can get, you do it yourself, or nothing.
I'm out!
#32
08-15-2016, 08:04 AM
A 32mm hollow bar is equivalent to a 24mm solid bar. I would guess that going from a 32 hollow to 32 solid is similar to a 40mm hollow, which is a 33% increase in torsional rigidity. That is a major increase as far as sway bars go, and I would suspect that an increase of that magnitude would definitely limit the front end's ability to have each side act independantly.
Let's assume you have a 30" swaybar with a 5" arm. All things considered equal besides tube diameter/thickness:
A solid 24mm bar has a spring rate of 1150lbs.
A hollow 32mm bar with an 4mm wall thickness (24mm inside diameter) has a spring rate of 2562lbs. More than double!
Now if we compare a solid 24mm bar to a hollow one, you'll see the difference is minor. Upping the bar size by 2mm and leaving it hollow nets a stiffer bar than solid while saving weight.
24mm solid: 1150lbs.
24mm hollow (16mm I.D.): 918lbs.
26mm hollow (18mm I.D.): 1220lbs.
Last edited by Stohlen; 08-15-2016 at 08:08 AM.
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08-16-2016, 07:52 PM
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08-16-2016, 10:44 PM
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08-17-2016, 08:57 PM
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