I suppose that's one way of looking at it, albeit shortsighted in my view. You can hold on to it at the cost of a better business model until all that's left is "heritage" and no product. Then like the now non-existent British Empire, our children and grandchildren can read about it in the history books. That makes where it's built "not worth holding onto," by my calculation.

A better choice would be keeping the "heritage" actually alive by building a healthy company by doing whatever it takes to expand market share worldwide and going head-to-head with competitors.

 

If that's really the cause for the delay, that's the sign of a company that's not healthy enough to be a viable global competitor.

Don't hold your breath on that global standard. We can't even agree on U.S. standards on most things, or anything else these days.

 

Neither Britain or America has a stellar reputation for car build quality, a U.S. plant may improve waiting times and cost for the North American market which is granted the largest market, but won't do much also for global sales or reputation.

 

The U.S. now has many German, Japanese, and Korean plants with quality equaling that of their home country manufactured models. In fact, GM and Ford are now in the upper tier in terms of quality and reliability, and sometimes exceeding several German and Japanese manufacturers.

What you said used to be true, but not so much anymore. It's about design and manufacturing process, not the work force.

 

Jaguar has a major problem and most owners can undestand this. The price point is out of line for new Jaguars and the depreciation is massive. Great branding, but price points and massive depreciation drives the consumer away.

I personally own an Jaguar XKR. It turns heads, has very few if any problems.

Stand alone Jaguar dealers will find it very hard to survive in an industry that is loaded with competition.

I just purchased a 2015 Corvette C7 and what you get for the money compared to the Jaguar F-Type the car is an outstanding value.

Bring down the price points on the Jaguar brand and sales will increase. It so hard to spend over or near $100,000 for a Jaguar F-type when you can buy a Corvette C7 for under $60,000 all day. A 40% difference is massive to the American consumer.

We all need to enjoy the Jags we have, because there is a strong possibility that someday in the future the brand may not exist. That would be sad, as Jaguar owners appear to be dedicated to the brand and it's history.

Tata can live with the Land Rover brand, and doesn't need the Jaguar brand to survive. Lets all hope that the Jaguar brand survives, but sales results will dictate their future. You just can't stay around in a business enterprise without sales and profitability.

 

As a former owner of C6 Z06, I know you're right. Quality was flawless and the performance was unbelievable.

I bought an F-Type for other reasons, which can't be quantified. However, I'm not sure there are enough people like me to sustain the brand unless they find a way to broaden the market.

 

While I agree about your performance per dollar comparison to the new C7, I will continue to disagree that Jaguar needs to lower prices. IMO, (and I know I'm just a nobody) Jaguar is a luxury brand. By lowering prices, they are going to become just another Ford or Chevy. Luxury brands ARE expensive. If they aren't expensive, then they aren't a luxury and anyone can go have one. Jaguar needs to decide how they are going to market themselves. If they want to remain a luxury brand, lowering prices will not help. They may need to offer more and cater much better to higher end consumers, but keep the prices in the luxury range, or you will see a Jag on every street corner.

 

I found the F-Type to be an excellent value from a leasing perspective, where MF and residual are more important than sticker price. Jaguar has very competitive leases.

I compared the F-Type against a Cayman GTS with a sticker price $4k more than my F-Type, and the lease payment was $500/month higher.

Lexus RCF sticker price was $8k less, but $200/month higher.

Against those numbers, the F-Type was a no-brainer.

 

I think you are partially right, in order to maintain that luxury perception you need to maintain some premium on price. But campaniles like BMW and MB have managed to maintain a premium across their whole range but operate in many price bands including some relatively low ones, but they still maintain their hero models and high end models.

I wouldnt recommend Jaguar massively drop prices on F-Types and XJ's. Apart from anything else they would screw their loyal existing customers on resale. But I do think they need to offer more fruit for the price in the XFs and I think they can afford to be pretty sharp on price for the XE to shift some volume.

 

That always happens, you don't notice until you get a nice car, then it seems everyone has the same one. But in all fairness nothing impresses in LA.

Look on the bright side if you were driving a BMW or Mercedes, it would be every car you drive by.

 

Your correct, BMW 3 series and Mercedes C series are their bread and butter cars. They are as common as Toyota and Honda on the street, because they are comparably priced and great cars. They make up the majority of their sales. Jaguar needs to be able to compete in that market with a car that's not a piece of junk. And that's not going to be easy to do.

 

Yes, yet to be proven in the market, but the early XE reviews of prototypes seem to indicate that the potential is there. Will depend on final pricing and execution.

 

I know, I checked out the Porsche website and literally didn't like any of the models. Kind of seems wrong for how expensive they are, but hey who cares, I love my f type.

 

Come on now, that is utter bullcrap. Maybe if you said the European Ford division with its Mondeo/Fusion and Focus product but US market US built cars are total crap. Maybe if you said European manufacturers. What GM product would be considered a top tier quality and control example? And don't give me the industry self serving JD Powers polls. SEVERAL German manufacturers??? VAG, Mercedes and BMW are not threatened by GM quality, so that leaves Opel a GM subsidiary .....

 

I'm not going to bother arguing with a post like that.

At any rate, here's a short highlight:

Most Reliable Cars of 2015 (video) - Consumer Reports

 

This is very unfortunate ---- I want to buy a 2016 F type but the only dealer in Nebraska has a terrible reputation. I really don't want to buy a car from them. The financial uncertainty of Jaguar makes the issue take on another dimension. I am considering getting another C63 instead.

The new C63 will have almost the same base price as an F type - but with 469 hp instead of 340, better quality, better engineering, etc. Dang.

I have a 2015 Corvette and it just runs rings around the F type - but the F Type is so great looking. Too bad. I do think that Jaguar needs to have lower prices to increase sales but with such small volumes they can't cover the R&D costs. Vicious cycle.

Tough to justify a new F type.



Tom

 

Personally, I'm not worried about the financial uncertainty of Jaguar.

 

Tom, Your comment [re] the dealer with the terrible reputation is a perfectly legitimate reason to not buy the F-Type from them - we all know of terrrible dealerships here - but I doubt that there's great financial uncertainly in the Jaguar brand and the commitment Tata has made to it.

[re] the Merc having better quality or engineering is debatable and I'll let others here better qualified to address that but choosing the F-Type over any other car doesn't, or shouldn't in my opinion, come down to 2 + 2 = 4. As Foosh recently mentioned, his decision to buy his F-Type was unquantifiable.

For many of us here the justification to buy an F-Type was easy. Finding the right dealer - for you - sounds more problematic. But even that should be able to be navigated with a little internet help and finding a dealer you're willing to work with.

Good luck.

 

Tom,
It's only the nervous Nellys on this forum that are imagining the financial weakness of Tata. The Jaguar brand is of personal pride to Ranjit Yadav. He will not sacrifice the marque to further shore up his already successful enterprise. JLR's profits alone are close to $2 Billion per year. Those profits have a long way to slump before anyone even considers spinning off the enterprise. If Jaguar survived British Leyland and Ford, it can survive anything.

 

Nice move from quality to reliability and noticed Toyota is second in the list despite recalls in the millions?

When I look at a brand new Escalade and every seam and panel has a different gap or is not parallel I do not need to interview a GM or FORD gearhead to whether he will buy another F-150 or not, of course he will. Still the car drives like a horse carriage and sooner or later the doors will not close properly. Having a few highlight products such as the new Corvette does not make GM a quality car maker by a long shot. GM has shown with the ignition disaster and the Cobalt that it is doing business and designing cars as usual, calculating what is cheaper, a recall or a law suit and out of court compensation.