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F-Type: success or failure?

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  #21  
Old 07-13-2015, 06:59 PM
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Profitably itself is hard to define since you can play around with the math/accounting. Profitable over how many quarters/years? How are shared cost divided? How are depreciating assets calculated? Etc. A "good" (or is it "bad") financial guy can make anything profitable

That said, my guess is, with a few exceptions, auto manufacturers intend on making profitable car models. I.e., if the car model sells according to projected sales targets, then it's profitable to the manufacturer. Which brings us back to what is the projected sales target. I haven't seen any official JLR statement on "we plan on selling xxx units per year of the F-Type." But if you look at comparison data between the F-Type and its biggest rival the 911, then I think it has meet its target sales.

The bigger, looming questions are

1) how will sales trend (look at how Viper sales dropped like a rock in recent years to the point they reduced MSRP)

2) will Jaguar be able to sell their volume XE and XF car. F-Type sales will never be at the volume to sustain and grow the Jaguar brand...they need their 3-series, C-class equivalent in the XE and XF
 
  #22  
Old 07-13-2015, 07:01 PM
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I forgot to add the F-Pace crossover thing they have coming. The XE and F-Pace will determine Jaguar's future. The F-Type is just along for the ride
 
  #23  
Old 07-13-2015, 07:24 PM
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Everyone who sees my car,the very first words out of their mouths are "Jaguar is Back"!

This car has given them a presence with world class looks and seemingly excellent reliability which is something they haven't had in quite a long time and bodes well for the future.

All the reviews I've read regarding the XE say it's a fabulous car and there's no reason to believe it won't sell well here. The F-Pace will also be a very stylish cross-over that I believe will also be very well received.

I think the future looks very bright for Jaguar,especially after bringing their own line of power plants in house.
 
  #24  
Old 07-13-2015, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo
You can't really compare JLR to GM though, very different companies.

And as for profitability of a single Jag model, that's kind of moot when the Brand itself struggles to break even.

Under Ford's ownership from 1989 to 2008, Jaguar never turned a profit. Land Rover was profitable.

For example, prior to the Ford selloff, in 2007 Land Rover made a $1.2B profit and Jag made a $100M loss. In 2006 Jag lost $500M.

2008 was a very bad year, with both brands together making a $1.1B loss.

Now that the brands are combined as JLR, you don't see the numbers for Jag or Land Rover separately. So it's hard to say if Jag is still making the loss and being carried by Land Rover. Data from 2009 onwards here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar...Financial_data

I doubt you'll find any published information about the profit/loss split between brands.

But let's assume the Jaguar portion of JLR is still at a loss, or barely breaking even.

While it's true that JLR is a business, not a charity (they do need to make money), there is no way would the F-Type ever be axed because of profitability concerns, even if it bled money, it's the halo car, and without a direct replacement in the lineup, it's not going anywhere...
Agreed, as long as the doors are open at Jaguar, the F-Type (or something similar) is needed to generate buzz for the marque to keep the tradition alive. Without something "sporty" in the lineup, the Jaguar tradition would wither and die.

GM never came close to ditching the Corvette except in the 50's when the C1 had a hard time catching on. I do recall such speculation being reported periodically over the 70's, 80's and 90's during various GM financial crises, that such an action was under consideration. The ensuing riot among "the faithful" always put that speculation to bed very quickly.
 
  #25  
Old 07-13-2015, 09:51 PM
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FWIW, the 911 almost got axed during the 80s. Yes, the iconic 911.

I get a sense that concern about the success of the F-Type is (partially) from not seeing too many F-Types on the road. I do have some theories (in addition to the fact that less are sold than 911s, C7s, etc.)

- It's a first generation, whereas Corvettes, 911s, etc. are several generations in (so we tend to just lump all 911s together, or all Corvettes together subconciously).

- Compared to Corvettes and 911s, greater percent of F-Types are not daily driven. The 911 is just a better overall daily driver (with its cargo space, better visibility, etc.). Because the F-Type tends to be more of a weekend car, you naturally see them less. Add to the fact that 1/2 are convertibles, you might only see them on sunny, nice weekends!

The combination of 1) relatively low volume 2) 1st generation 3) weekend car makes the F-Type seem rarer than it actually is (in terms of just sales volume).

Plus, people spend too much time on the forum and don't get out enough. Once you do, you start to see them. Like I did today at the DMV. LOL. That was sarcasm if it wasn't obvious
 
  #26  
Old 07-13-2015, 10:47 PM
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It's a mild success. JLR is a halo itself for Tata, so introducing a new model like this and having it keep its head somewhat above water is great. Goodcarbadcar.net stats show it with a fighting parity w/ Boxter/Cayman and SL and SLK (if you consider those separately), well behind 911 but not out of sight.

And what else is there? The premium true two-seater market is tiny right now. The new Mustang is a Success (gcbc June stats: 11k+ sold in US! 16th best-selling car overall!) But even that is not the kind of thing that's going to make Warren Buffet or Carl Icahn think about getting into the car business.

They introduced a totally new platform into a small market dominated by extremely salty competitors and have held their own in ink, perception and sales.

In many ways it's best of both worlds for users... best combo of style, power, marque and rarity for under $100k (base and S at that price point, obv). Corp dev seems to be on board with bumps like the 3rd-year intro of 6MT and the new stuff on the horizon. That's why I bought in...
 
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