Former M4 Owners?
#1
08-11-2018, 12:54 PM
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Former M4 Owners?
Hi all,
I'm new here and have been driving BMW M cars and Mercedes AMG cars for the last decade or so. I'm coming to the end of my relationship with my current M4 and am pondering what's next.
The F-Type R is definitely on my list and I'd probably be looking for a 2017 since the depreciation in year one makes a good case to buy slightly used. Any former M4 owners make the switch? If so, any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm new here and have been driving BMW M cars and Mercedes AMG cars for the last decade or so. I'm coming to the end of my relationship with my current M4 and am pondering what's next.
The F-Type R is definitely on my list and I'd probably be looking for a 2017 since the depreciation in year one makes a good case to buy slightly used. Any former M4 owners make the switch? If so, any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
#2
08-11-2018, 04:07 PM
Senior Member
Simultaneous E90 M3 (supercharged) owner here, so I have a little bit of insight to share:
1) Jag is much less common, accordingly it gets more attention than the M cars
2) Because of #1 above, not as many car meets/bimmerfest type events, fewer aftermarket options. But stick with this forum, we have a growing list of available mods.
3) F type and M3 have similar exterior dimensions (taking almost the exact amount of space in a garage bay) yet the M3 has a back seat and legit trunk, F type, not so much.
4) E90 v-8 sounds great, but even with my 3rd aftermarket exhaust on the M, Jag still sounds better.
5) I was lead to believe the BMW DSG's were awesome, frankly I like the Jag auto transmission just as much. Living on LA with mega traffic, I had to give up on manuals 5 years ago.
6) I have a decent local Jag dealer, but some are not as fortunate. And of course there are fewer of them.
7) Tall cowl and hood on the jag takes some getting used to, visibility is better and the overall front end mass seems much less in the M3 - don't know about your gen M4 in this regard.
8) BMW of course engineers the heck out of every little part, Jag takes a few shortcuts, especially with infotainment and fit/finish.
9) My M3 looks ordinary, Jag looks exotic
10) Fun factor higher in Jag, sound, looks.are better, It will be a nice change from the german cars!
1) Jag is much less common, accordingly it gets more attention than the M cars
2) Because of #1 above, not as many car meets/bimmerfest type events, fewer aftermarket options. But stick with this forum, we have a growing list of available mods.
3) F type and M3 have similar exterior dimensions (taking almost the exact amount of space in a garage bay) yet the M3 has a back seat and legit trunk, F type, not so much.
4) E90 v-8 sounds great, but even with my 3rd aftermarket exhaust on the M, Jag still sounds better.
5) I was lead to believe the BMW DSG's were awesome, frankly I like the Jag auto transmission just as much. Living on LA with mega traffic, I had to give up on manuals 5 years ago.
6) I have a decent local Jag dealer, but some are not as fortunate. And of course there are fewer of them.
7) Tall cowl and hood on the jag takes some getting used to, visibility is better and the overall front end mass seems much less in the M3 - don't know about your gen M4 in this regard.
8) BMW of course engineers the heck out of every little part, Jag takes a few shortcuts, especially with infotainment and fit/finish.
9) My M3 looks ordinary, Jag looks exotic
10) Fun factor higher in Jag, sound, looks.are better, It will be a nice change from the german cars!
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KarimEls (08-12-2018)
#3
08-11-2018, 05:10 PM
All points Chawumba makes are spot on.
Have not owned M4 (although was in the consideration set several times and I've driven them many times) but have owned 650 Xdrive, 911GTS, CLS63 AMG, and a V10 R8 as other examples of fun Europeans. Key points for me are:
The F Type has a unique persona. The flowing body is universally viewed as beautiful. The performance is solid and the car is engaging. Everything from the exhaust to the rising center vents and rear spoiler are just a bunch of fun on the road. There is a level of uniqueness...I don't see many others. The features and general design are not shared across an array of model sizes (3 and 5, C and E series, etc).
Infotainment is a weakness, not a deal breaker for me. I am fortunate with the fit and finish on my '18 Ultra Blue R. I also happen to have a decent dealership close by but have read others have less luck. Dealership support and service are critical to me so that is something I'd research closely as they are not everywhere like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes.
My wife and I both love the car and no regrets or buyers remorse here, just big smiles and enjoyment in our first British vehicle. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.
Have not owned M4 (although was in the consideration set several times and I've driven them many times) but have owned 650 Xdrive, 911GTS, CLS63 AMG, and a V10 R8 as other examples of fun Europeans. Key points for me are:
The F Type has a unique persona. The flowing body is universally viewed as beautiful. The performance is solid and the car is engaging. Everything from the exhaust to the rising center vents and rear spoiler are just a bunch of fun on the road. There is a level of uniqueness...I don't see many others. The features and general design are not shared across an array of model sizes (3 and 5, C and E series, etc).
Infotainment is a weakness, not a deal breaker for me. I am fortunate with the fit and finish on my '18 Ultra Blue R. I also happen to have a decent dealership close by but have read others have less luck. Dealership support and service are critical to me so that is something I'd research closely as they are not everywhere like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes.
My wife and I both love the car and no regrets or buyers remorse here, just big smiles and enjoyment in our first British vehicle. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.
#4
08-11-2018, 05:19 PM
Hi wj100, welcome to the forum.
I do not have chawumba's experience and do not claim any particular expertise in either car... but I spent an enormous amount of time test-driving the M4 as I was dead set on buying one. I exhausted 4 different BMW dealers, before I decided for the F Type instead. A couple of comments:
1. The interior of the M4 needs a refresh. I bought a little bimmer in 2001 and it already had the same dashboard as a 2017 M4, with the slot for CDs and buttons to select radio stations. The screen above the dashboard feels as if BMW realized they needed a screen but had no idea where to put it. By contrast, as my wife says, the F Type feels like a million bucks.
2. The exterior looks are not in the same league... the F Type looks like a dream car.
3. On a daily drive, or at "normal or spirited" speeds, rather than on a track, the supercharged engine will give you immediate, linear emotions as you press the pedal. This is definitely not the case for the M4. This last point is what sealed it for me. Go drive a F Type after an M4 on the highways around your town, and the answer will be obvious.
Good luck with your choice.
I do not have chawumba's experience and do not claim any particular expertise in either car... but I spent an enormous amount of time test-driving the M4 as I was dead set on buying one. I exhausted 4 different BMW dealers, before I decided for the F Type instead. A couple of comments:
1. The interior of the M4 needs a refresh. I bought a little bimmer in 2001 and it already had the same dashboard as a 2017 M4, with the slot for CDs and buttons to select radio stations. The screen above the dashboard feels as if BMW realized they needed a screen but had no idea where to put it. By contrast, as my wife says, the F Type feels like a million bucks.
2. The exterior looks are not in the same league... the F Type looks like a dream car.
3. On a daily drive, or at "normal or spirited" speeds, rather than on a track, the supercharged engine will give you immediate, linear emotions as you press the pedal. This is definitely not the case for the M4. This last point is what sealed it for me. Go drive a F Type after an M4 on the highways around your town, and the answer will be obvious.
Good luck with your choice.
#5
08-11-2018, 10:20 PM
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Thanks for the feedback to my original post. Just some additional comments/thoughts:
- Prior to test driving the F-TYPE I was concerned that the ZF automatic wouldn't compare to the dual clutch auto in my M4 However I was pleasantly surprised
- Infotainment is indeed a concern I spend a lot of time in my car and think BMW's iDrive system is first rate Even my 2015 version seems much more advanced then the Jag's Plus I have heads-up display that I'll definitely miss as I've grown quite accustomed to it.
- The only other vehicle I'm seriously considering is the AR Giulia QV, but I'm leaning F-TYPE
#6
08-13-2018, 10:03 AM
#7
08-13-2018, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the feedback to my original post. Just some additional comments/thoughts:
- Prior to test driving the F-TYPE I was concerned that the ZF automatic wouldn't compare to the dual clutch auto in my M4 However I was pleasantly surprised
- Infotainment is indeed a concern I spend a lot of time in my car and think BMW's iDrive system is first rate Even my 2015 version seems much more advanced then the Jag's Plus I have heads-up display that I'll definitely miss as I've grown quite accustomed to it.
- The only other vehicle I'm seriously considering is the AR Giulia QV, but I'm leaning F-TYPE
Visibility with the Coupe is something to consider as in my experience it’s been mostly guess work and the help of the blind spot detectors.
While overall I’m very pleased with the F-Type, I think after a couple of years I’ll be ready for another M5.
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#8
08-13-2018, 06:21 PM
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Having recently stepped away from a similar history, I have to agree with most points here. The infotainment system is an interesting downside to the Jag’s overall appeal. It’s one of the few things that bothers me about this car. BMW was the original and they have absolutely mastered it in recent years (imo it’s been great since CIC debuted in 2009.5). The technology in the Jag is 15 years old, and it boy does it look/feel like it. Considering the price point, I don’t think it’s too much to expect something more polished here. The dials and menus really need revision as well, they’re far more cartoony than the german’s. The sound system is also sadly no comparison.
Visibility with the Coupe is something to consider as in my experience it’s been mostly guess work and the help of the blind spot detectors.
While overall I’m very pleased with the F-Type, I think after a couple of years I’ll be ready for another M5.
#9
08-13-2018, 06:53 PM
Welcome! No M4, but I too traded my first year E90 M3 for the first year F-Type V8S OTS, and have to say I really don't miss the M3 at all. Sure it had back seats and a trunk you could actually fit something more than a pizza box in, but I found I never actually used either in the M3 anyway. The M3 had the DSG, but I find the ZF auto almost identical in behavior; in fact I think it's a bit smarter. The electronics in the BMW were a bit better, and I'm sure have improved since then, but were not perfect, and I do really miss the HUD. However, the torque, the handling, the noise, the steering feel, the sense of connection to the road, the standout gorgeous looks and the fun I have had with the F-Type, well I just never had so much pleasure out of the M3. I've also noticed that people give the F-Type much more positive vibes than the M3. Many more positive comments and looks than the M3. Haters gonna hate, but far fewer of them... No regrets at all.
#10
08-13-2018, 07:55 PM
wj100: "Is infotainment livable" is a tough one to answer.
For me, yes...and that comes with currently owning a 2017 X5 50i and having owned a 2016 650i X Drive Grand Coupe, only stated to share that I know the BMW system, including the heads up display my wife and I both love. I tend to enjoy the driving experience and don't listen to music unless stuck in traffic. In the F Type, I rarely use the sound system. The Nav is a bit old school and takes some getting used to.
As it isn't my daily driver I tend to focus on driving pleasure when in the F, so it is indeed livable. If it were a commuter, I'd say it would still be okay for me as the things that attract me to the car (performance, style, the exhaust notes, uniqueness & road presence...) override the last gen infotainment system. A very personal decision based on what's important to you.
For me, yes...and that comes with currently owning a 2017 X5 50i and having owned a 2016 650i X Drive Grand Coupe, only stated to share that I know the BMW system, including the heads up display my wife and I both love. I tend to enjoy the driving experience and don't listen to music unless stuck in traffic. In the F Type, I rarely use the sound system. The Nav is a bit old school and takes some getting used to.
As it isn't my daily driver I tend to focus on driving pleasure when in the F, so it is indeed livable. If it were a commuter, I'd say it would still be okay for me as the things that attract me to the car (performance, style, the exhaust notes, uniqueness & road presence...) override the last gen infotainment system. A very personal decision based on what's important to you.
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tzoid9 (08-26-2018)
#11
08-13-2018, 08:19 PM
Veteran Member
The infotainment in the mid-2016MY and after cars is much, much better than the previous version (which isnt saying much, as Jag infotainment has never been that good). It is pretty good, the sounds are crisp and the bass is good, it doesnt get muddy. The controls are pretty good, the touchscreen quick enough. Personally I thought that the sound from the mid-range volvo systems were better but the shape of the cabin has a bit to do with it and so does the style of music, certainly the sound from the f type craps on the bowers and wilkins systems that were in my XF and XKR which were absolute rubbish, notwithstanding winning some obscure award. Apparently they were good for Jazz, but I've never hated myself enough to listen to it.
#12
08-13-2018, 08:41 PM
I have not owned an M4 but I have owned an E36 M3, E46 M3 and an M Roadster. I also just completed a BMW M Track day at Homestead Motor Speedway in which I drove an M2, M3, M4 and M5 and I can tell that I am very happy with my decision to purchase a F-Type "R". IMHO BMW has numbed the steering feel and lessened the drivers connection to the road. They seem soft..... The "R" is not significanlty better in feel but I give it the edge. Who would have thought...... Drive the F-Type and you decide.
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#13
08-13-2018, 10:10 PM
I have not owned an M4 but I have owned an E36 M3, E46 M3 and an M Roadster. I also just completed a BMW M Track day at Homestead Motor Speedway in which I drove an M2, M3, M4 and M5 and I can tell that I am very happy with my decision to purchase a F-Type "R". IMHO BMW has numbed the steering feel and lessened the drivers connection to the road. They seem soft..... The "R" is not significanlty better in feel but I give it the edge. Who would have thought...... Drive the F-Type and you decide.
Last edited by speedski; 08-13-2018 at 10:21 PM.
#14
08-14-2018, 05:59 AM
Overall I agree although we did get the tail out a few times on the track.
We are looking forward to driving the new Z4 or Z8 whatever they call it as we had a 2009 Z4 that we enjoyed and served us very well. These smaller verts at least were not as numb.....
We are looking forward to driving the new Z4 or Z8 whatever they call it as we had a 2009 Z4 that we enjoyed and served us very well. These smaller verts at least were not as numb.....
Last edited by Mjet; 08-14-2018 at 06:33 AM.
#15
08-14-2018, 07:40 AM
I wonder whether all the negative comments on the F Type infotainment system applied to earlier models but are no longer valid. I spent a week earlier this year driving a 2019MY (US) F Type with the 10in TouchPro touchscreen, and honestly, the whole set up appeals to me a lot more than what BMW offers. The new TouchPro is customizable, responds fast to the touch, and is beautifully integrated in the dashboard (unlike the iPad screen popping out of the BMW dashboard in front of the windscreen). I am not a stereo pro, but the sound was fabulous to me. I think the BMW overall dashboard design is outdated... feels like nobody in that company is daring to move away from a design that has worked for the past 20 years.
#16
08-14-2018, 05:43 PM
Veteran Member
I wonder whether all the negative comments on the F Type infotainment system applied to earlier models but are no longer valid. I spent a week earlier this year driving a 2019MY (US) F Type with the 10in TouchPro touchscreen, and honestly, the whole set up appeals to me a lot more than what BMW offers..
(I am a recovering BMW owner).
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tzoid9 (08-26-2018)
#17
08-14-2018, 05:58 PM
Veteran Member
I appreciate what you say but I personally cant cop a bad stereo (I love music, I get caught up in a song and play it over and over - at the moment it is "Wagon Train" by the Dickies). I barely use the GPS and anyway the phone is much more accurate, but I find it a PITA to not have a decent reverse camera, front sensor with image on screen (my parking isnt the best), easy to use phone set-up (I get business calls on my mobile and use time in the car to catch up), with text function (because my rotten kids dont do anything but text, so having the cars read them to me makes communication much easier). Ultimately I work over 50 hours a week and then I might have say 4 hours or so in the car to and from work, double that if I have to go to court, so for me I want all of the conveniences and enjoyment from good infotainment, and if it is well set up you can do everything without being distracted. On the weekend though the stereo is pretty much switched off and it is all about the engine noise.
#18
08-14-2018, 10:04 PM
I had an M4 before trading it in early from my lease for the F-type. It was the first BMW that I’ve ever traded in early. The biggest difference is traction. The Jaguar has it. The M4 doesn’t. For me, that alone makes the Jaguar much more enjoyable to drive. I didn’t trust the M4 at all, mainly because it would fishtail all over the place and sometimes turn sideways with fairly minor maneuvers,
The second biggest difference is sound, where the Jaguar is obviously much better. Looks are subjective. I prefer the Jaguar, but the M4is definitely a good-looking car. The M4 interior is nice, but the Jag’s I interior quality and materials are a step up. The infotainment system is definitely behind, but it’s workable. It has most of the features, it just doesn’t look as polished. And it has the other tech that I care about...Bluetooth, blind spot, backup camera, parking sensors, etc. Transmissions are equally good. The Jag is a bit heavier, so the M4 feels a touch more tossable in certain situations. I had the regular suspension on my M4 and felt it was very nicely dialed in. The Jag has the adjustable suspension which is a bit soft in regular mode and very good in dynamic mode. The M4 is arguable a bit more practical, but I have other cars with back seats and the hatch (coupe) has plenty of room for groceries or other small-medium sized items. The trunk on the convertible is pretty useless, which is unfortunate because I’d think it would be tough to take it on a weekend trip.
The second biggest difference is sound, where the Jaguar is obviously much better. Looks are subjective. I prefer the Jaguar, but the M4is definitely a good-looking car. The M4 interior is nice, but the Jag’s I interior quality and materials are a step up. The infotainment system is definitely behind, but it’s workable. It has most of the features, it just doesn’t look as polished. And it has the other tech that I care about...Bluetooth, blind spot, backup camera, parking sensors, etc. Transmissions are equally good. The Jag is a bit heavier, so the M4 feels a touch more tossable in certain situations. I had the regular suspension on my M4 and felt it was very nicely dialed in. The Jag has the adjustable suspension which is a bit soft in regular mode and very good in dynamic mode. The M4 is arguable a bit more practical, but I have other cars with back seats and the hatch (coupe) has plenty of room for groceries or other small-medium sized items. The trunk on the convertible is pretty useless, which is unfortunate because I’d think it would be tough to take it on a weekend trip.
#19
08-15-2018, 10:36 AM
Veteran Member
As a former (predating Bangle years) BMW owner, image of modern BMWs is extremely negative to the point of toxic. To the point that BMW ought to work on keying-resistant clear coat finish for all their cars, as this is much needed feature. Additionally, to me, modern BMW styling looks boring for the vast majority of their lineup, they haven't produced a good looking car since E38 with only modern exception of E89 Z4.
Modern BMW is the ultimate posing machine, choose something else instead.
Modern BMW is the ultimate posing machine, choose something else instead.
#20
08-25-2018, 05:54 PM
Before I Bought the F-Type, I owned both a Z4 M Sport and a SLK55 AMG. I actually traded the Z4 for the Jag, because I was never that impressed with it. I sold the AMG a couple of months after I bought the Jaguar because I didn't need two weekend cars and I preferred the F-Type. The only thing I miss from the BMW and MB are the retractable hard tops. From a looks standpoint the Jaguar wins hands down. I practically never go out w/o some thumbs-up's and nice car comments.
The transmission in the Jaguar actually seems to shift better and faster than the dual-clutch in the Z4, and the Dynamic and sport modes together beat the adjustable sport mode in the BMW. As for the infotainment system, I listen to music all the time, and the Jaguar is better than the base system on the Z4 and almost equal to the Harman Kardon in the AMG.
One thing I do not like are the P-Zero tires. At anything below 40 degrees, I feel like I'm driving in the wet especially the rears. I had Pilot Super Sports on the other two cars and they were great, even in colder weather.
The transmission in the Jaguar actually seems to shift better and faster than the dual-clutch in the Z4, and the Dynamic and sport modes together beat the adjustable sport mode in the BMW. As for the infotainment system, I listen to music all the time, and the Jaguar is better than the base system on the Z4 and almost equal to the Harman Kardon in the AMG.
One thing I do not like are the P-Zero tires. At anything below 40 degrees, I feel like I'm driving in the wet especially the rears. I had Pilot Super Sports on the other two cars and they were great, even in colder weather.