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I was in the gasoline business for over a decade. We saw it all the time. Using unbranded gasoline consistently on my pickup truck led to injector fowling. Two tanks of chevron containing techron cleared the issue. Yes, very anecdotal, but the industry wouldn't waste money on very expensive additives if they didn't actually do something.
I remember running Techron through my Vette twice a year. I do not remember whether that advice came from Lingenfelter, my dealer service, or the Corvette Forum.
I've done a bit of research on the subject myself. Comments for what they're worth;
- ethanol fuels are a problem for older vehicles. I had a number of collectible older cars (1966 - 1974) and ethanol fuels is definitely a potential problem for them. Modern cars should be largely immune to any ill effects.
But,
- ethanol fuel's shelf life is considerably less than non-ethanol fuel. I've seen ethanol fuel (10%) degrade and cause issues in as little as 2-3 months whereas I've had "real" fuel sit for well over a year without problems. Additives are certainly recommended if E10 is going to sit for any length of time though I'm unsure if a good additive is as good as using non-ethanol fuel in the first place.
If you don't have a choice and the only fuel available is an ethanol blend then I'd suggest an additive IF the car is going to be stored for more than a few weeks. In Canada, we do have a choice and I choose to use either Shell 91 V power or Chevron 94, both of which do NOT contain ethanol. I'm sure a modern car that gets driven regularly is unlikely to suffer any ethanol related issues....that said, I will continue to use non-ethanol fuel as long as it is readily available as I'm convinced that the ethanol does nothing good.
....non treated E10 is especially bad in things like lawn mowers, weed wackers, chainsaws, outboard boat motors, generators, etc.
2 cents,
Dave
Last edited by DPelletier; 03-21-2016 at 01:28 PM.
the industry wouldn't waste money on very expensive additives if they didn't actually do something.
No argument there, and I'm not suggesting that additives are not required or ineffective.
I'm simply saying that there's little evidence to support the argument that 'off brands' of gasoline do not have a reasonable package in their products.
I also use Shell 91 and I believe Ultra Mar 91 advertises no ethanol either. Might as well get the wee bit more mileage and H.P...
Read an article some months back that claimed it was the corn lobby in the USA that got the ethanol across all levels of fuel in the U.S.,and trying to raise it to 15%.. more so than the enviro types. ?
No argument there, and I'm not suggesting that additives are not required or ineffective.
I'm simply saying that there's little evidence to support the argument that 'off brands' of gasoline do not have a reasonable package in their products.
Our experience in the trade was some do and more don't.
I also use Shell 91 and I believe Ultra Mar 91 advertises no ethanol either. Might as well get the wee bit more mileage and H.P...
Read an article some months back that claimed it was the corn lobby in the USA that got the ethanol across all levels of fuel in the U.S.,and trying to raise it to 15%.. more so than the enviro types. ?
Lawrence
Yes, the environmental credentials of ethanol as a fuel are very much disputed, in the US it is very much more around subsidized farmers and politics than it is around real environmental issues.
For me here, it is easy to get higher octane non ethanol premium fuels. I don't know who is right and wrong in this argument, but for a couple of bucks extra per tank (potentially partially offset by slightly better fuel economy) for a car I love and want to keep for a long time I will be playing it safe and using the dino premium.
Read an article some months back that claimed it was the corn lobby in the USA that got the ethanol across all levels of fuel in the U.S.,and trying to raise it to 15%.. more so than the enviro types. ?
Lawrence
There is some accuracy to this, but it also had to do with political decisions made years ago to reduce US dependence on foreign oil. The irony of that is fracking technology came along, and many more large reserves were discovered. Before the recent oil price crash, the US was on the verge of becoming the world's largest oil producer. Experts now say the US has a larger oil reserve than the Middle East countries.
There is some accuracy to this, but it also had to do with political decisions made years ago to reduce US dependence on foreign oil. The irony of that is fracking technology came along, and many more large reserves were discovered. Before the recent oil price crash, the US was on the verge of becoming the world's largest oil producer. Experts now say the US has a larger oil reserve than the Middle East countries.
The "experts" quoted here are not correct. The US certainly does not have greater oil reserves than the Middle East, not even close. US reserves for 2014 (last full year of stats) was about 38 billion barrels. Saudi Arabia alone has 266 billion barrels. Just a few years ago the US reserves stood at 22 billion barrels, so reserves are up significantly, but no where near the Middle East. The US does have a lot of "resource potential," but so do other countries. This number is sometimes quoted as reserves, or I should say confused with reserves, which they are most definitely not.
Ethanol was mandated by Congress in gasoline in the US 10 years ago or more; it is not a choice by the oil companies nor the automobile companies. It was thought to stretch US gasoline supplies to reduce imports, and also was thought to help gasoline burn more completely by adding it as a oxygenate. Environmentalists also jumped on the bandwagon saying it was cleaner burning than gasoline, but that reasoning is also in question. I have seen conflicting reports when looking at the entire production chain if it saves any fossil fuel at all, but my guess is that it is at best a push. I would avoid E10 fuel if I could, but I can't here in Colorado, nor can most of the US. The corn lobby and the EPA are pushing for E15 now and I hope they will not be successful in mandating it. By no means put E85 in your tank in any circumstance; it is available in some US states including here in Colorado. If you run out of fuel, have your car towed first. Quote from the manual, "Do not use E85 fuels as serious engine damage and fuel system damage WILL (my emphasis) occur."
The "experts" quoted here are not correct. The US certainly does not have greater oil reserves than the Middle East, not even close. US reserves for 2014 (last full year of stats) was about 38 billion barrels. Saudi Arabia alone has 266 billion barrels. Just a few years ago the US reserves stood at 22 billion barrels, so reserves are up significantly, but no where near the Middle East. The US does have a lot of "resource potential," but so do other countries. This number is sometimes quoted as reserves, or I should say confused with reserves, which they are most definitely not.
Ethanol was mandated by Congress in gasoline in the US 10 years ago or more; it is not a choice by the oil companies nor the automobile companies. It was thought to stretch US gasoline supplies to reduce imports, and also was thought to help gasoline burn more completely by adding it as a oxygenate. Environmentalists also jumped on the bandwagon saying it was cleaner burning than gasoline, but that reasoning is also in question. I have seen conflicting reports when looking at the entire production chain if it saves any fossil fuel at all, but my guess is that it is at best a push. I would avoid E10 fuel if I could, but I can't here in Colorado, nor can most of the US. The corn lobby and the EPA are pushing for E15 now and I hope they will not be successful in mandating it. By no means put E85 in your tank in any circumstance; it is available in some US states including here in Colorado. If you run out of fuel, have your car towed first. Quote from the manual, "Do not use E85 fuels as serious engine damage and fuel system damage WILL (my emphasis) occur."
Yes, with all the new oil discovered in the North Dakota fields, with fracking and other places, I was quoting estimates of "resource potential" and shouldn't have said "reserves."
Just got back from a visit to a company that sells equipment to refineries to help them blend gasoline and diesel. Blends are very different from region to region, winter vs. summer. Butane is cheap and used to boost octane: but it evaporates due to a low vapor pressure. Blends are dictated by what type of crude is being used by the refineries serving your area. Sometimes staff gets lazy and they have "octane give-away" -- they blend a higher octane mix, since that's OK to sell, but companies don't like it because it kills profits. I'm sticking with top tier gasoline for my F-Type and 12+ year-old scotch for me.
Just got back from a visit to a company that sells equipment to refineries to help them blend gasoline and diesel. Blends are very different from region to region, winter vs. summer. Butane is cheap and used to boost octane: but it evaporates due to a low vapor pressure. Blends are dictated by what type of crude is being used by the refineries serving your area. Sometimes staff gets lazy and they have "octane give-away" -- they blend a higher octane mix, since that's OK to sell, but companies don't like it because it kills profits. I'm sticking with top tier gasoline for my F-Type and 12+ year-old scotch for me.
You do realize that top tier fuels come from the same refineries as non-top tier? The only difference is the additive package.
I take comfort in the fact that unlike some other brands, Jaguar did an excellent job of designing an engine that doesn't require top tier.
Yes, I'm aware that the same local refineries supply lots of vendors and that "premium" brands in my area like Sonoco and Amoco have unique additive packages while Hess and Costco probably have the same identical slop in their tanks. Our local BayWay Refinery in Linden NJ has a pipeline to JFK and Newark airports for Jet Fuel, so they are making lots of different products. The knock sensors and electronics in our modern engines can cope with pretty much anything. Good article here:
03-21-2016, 10:53 AM
