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Group buy: 2pc wortec rotors for steel super brakes on f-type

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  #481  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by IronMike
Are the heat shields easy to remove and replace once the rotors are off?
If so, I may purchase a new set, have them painted and ceramic coated before sending the car out to have the new rotors and pads installed.
See post #467.
The rear heat/dust/splash shields are each held on with three fixings.
The top one is a screw which also holds an electrical wire connector (ABS?), real easy to remove and replace.
But the other two are rivets!
When I replaced the rear 326 mm brakes with 376 mm brakes I had to replace the splash shields as well.
I simply broke the rivets off by inserting a large screwdriver between the back of the splash shield and the hub and bashed it with a heavy hammer until the rivets broke in half. Doing this made a small tear in each of the splash shield rivets holes, but it didn't bother me as those splash shields were being scrapped. In hindsight, and especially if you want to reuse the splash shields and not damage them, it would have been better to drill the rivets out.
As I don't have a riveter I bolted the new splash shields on in those two spots using some roughly 2.5 cm long 10 mm bolts, nuts and washers I had lying around. It was bit of a hassle getting the nut on the back of each bolt as there isn't much space between the shield and the hub, but with some perseverance I got there in the end. There was no problem with the head of the bolt on the front of the shield as the rivet spots are recessed enough to fit a small bolt head into.
So, long story short, if you want to take the splash shields off you need to figure out the best way of getting those rivets out without damaging the splash shields and then a way to reattach the splash shields.
I don't know for sure about the front splash shields but I would be very surprised if they are not attached in exactly the same way as the rears.
 
  #482  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:01 PM
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If I could have found a brake shop I could trust in Portland to do these rotors I would have went for it. 2-3 said take it to the dealer.

As inept as I would be in my cramped-up garage I would trust myself before the dealer.

Working 10+ hour days and no time.

Searching the word "Portland" reveals no good shops for work like this on a modern Jag.
 
  #483  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Burt Gummer
If I could have found a brake shop I could trust in Portland to do these rotors I would have went for it. 2-3 said take it to the dealer.

As inept as I would be in my cramped-up garage I would trust myself before the dealer.

Working 10+ hour days and no time.

Searching the word "Portland" reveals no good shops for work like this on a modern Jag.
What's the matter with the brake shops in your area?
Replacing the rotors and pads is a very straightforward job that any half-decent brake shop can do in a jiffy!
 
  #484  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR
What's the matter with the brake shops in your area?
Replacing the rotors and pads is a very straightforward job that any half-decent brake shop can do in a jiffy!
Portland definitely has brake shops that can do this.
 
  #485  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Job’s All finished. Equal or better stopping force even before being fully seated, but much easier to modulate.
I did the Porterfield bed-in procedure today, might need to do another one tomorrow, but so far the stopping power does not appear to be as good as OEM but I am guessing they are not fully seated yet.
 
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  #486  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by zmoothg
I did the Porterfield bed-in procedure today, might need to do another one tomorrow, but so far the stopping power does not appear to be as good as OEM but I am guessing they are not fully seated yet.
It is the reason I avoided those pads as some owners did say they offered less stopping power than OEM and I wanted more power not less.

Of course bedding in fully will improve them.

I was lucky as Wortec had mine fitted for me and the garage was located on an ex-army base, so we had some very empty long straights on private roads so several big stop from 130mph down to around 10-20mph were done to bed them in fully.
 
  #487  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Gibbo205
It is the reason I avoided those pads as some owners did say they offered less stopping power than OEM and I wanted more power not less.

Of course bedding in fully will improve them.

I was lucky as Wortec had mine fitted for me and the garage was located on an ex-army base, so we had some very empty long straights on private roads so several big stop from 130mph down to around 10-20mph were done to bed them in fully.
DO NOT try and do 130MPH to 10-20MPH break-ins on R4S! That's how you screw them up.

From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about 45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this about four or five times to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! (Note: With less aggressive street pads and/or stock brake calipers, you may need to do this fewer times. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)

During this process, you must not come to a complete stop because you will transfer (imprint) pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors.

Depending on the pads you are using, the brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A bad smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.

After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and drive around for as long as possible without using the brakes. The brakes will need at least 10 minutes to cool down. Obviously, it's OK to use the brakes to avoid an accident, but try to minimize their use until they have cooled.

If club race pads, such as Pagid Orange or Porterfield R4, are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph. If full race pads, such as Pagid Black, are being used, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph.
 
  #488  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by zmoothg
I did the Porterfield bed-in procedure today, might need to do another one tomorrow, but so far the stopping power does not appear to be as good as OEM but I am guessing they are not fully seated yet.
I stopped using Porterfield many years ago for the same reason... I tried them again this year but on my son's car. He drives most of the time aggressively.... he cracked the pads and big chunks separated. I would not use them for any reason now. EBC Yellow stuff work best. Currently testing (i.e. on shelf for track day) Brembo, Bendix, ATE and TRW (same as OEM but direct)
 
  #489  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR
I think both the bracket and the caliper are aloooooominum alloy.
Originally Posted by SinF
Take a blowtorch to it, if it melts into silver puddle, then it is aluminum. If it gets red hot, then it is cast iron. If it gets red hot and warps, then it is stainless steel.

:_P
If it's solid at room temperature and melts when you hold it in your hand, it's gallium.

I decided to test using magic (magnetism). Poking a magnet through the spokes, it seems the caliper body is al-you-minium as is the outer bracket, but there is a bracket in between that the magnet declares ferrous.
 
  #490  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lizzardo
If it's solid at room temperature and melts when you hold it in your hand, it's gallium.

I decided to test using magic (magnetism). Poking a magnet through the spokes, it seems the caliper body is al-you-minium as is the outer bracket, but there is a bracket in between that the magnet declares ferrous.
Doh!
How could I miss something as obvious!
I checked just now with my magnetic screw/bolt retriever gizmo, and confirmed beyond all doubt that the front brake caliper (the big one) is NOT magnetic and therefore odds on to be alu alloy, but everything else both front and rear IS magnetic, so bound to be cast iron.
 
  #491  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR
Doh!
How could I miss something as obvious!
Given your location, might I suggest beer? Come to think of it, I'll suggest it regardless of location. As soon as I finish typing, I'll go get one for myself.

Also, it might be a new invention down there, and not widely recognized. It also gives opportunity quote one of my favorite movies:

"Australia is entirely peopled with criminals ..." -- Vezzini
 
  #492  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:07 PM
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Default Got the fronts on, quick before and after pic

I'm very happy with the look, these new rotors make the factory ones look silly. See before and after pics.

FWIW, LPI racing which sold me the Porterfield RS-4 pads for my E90 M3 suggested a minimal bedding procedure (perhaps a few 80MPH to 40MPH runs followed by a cool down) or none at all - just drive it like an economy car for first 100 miles. They said the few problems they have seen are from over-zealous bedding procedures that ruined the pads.

On my M3, I went no bedding and they have been fantastic. The initial bite is a little less than OEM, but total braking power was unaffected. What I did notice was 75% less brake dust. Photos of calipers/rotors after 3000+ miles on them - I've rinsed wheels and calipers a couple times, but no attempt to clean beyond that. Still look great.

RS-4's are a street pad, there are others for the track. However, I'm looking forward to the greatly reduced brake dust for the F type, the OEM pads were ridiculous.
 
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  #493  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:12 AM
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I followed the break in procedure twice but the pads still stop horribly. Going to have to check if the pads are somehow glazed. I'm extremely worried if I have to make a sudden stop.
 
  #494  
Old 06-14-2018, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Chawumba
I'm very happy with the look, these new rotors make the factory ones look silly. See before and after pics.

FWIW, LPI racing which sold me the Porterfield RS-4 pads for my E90 M3 suggested a minimal bedding procedure (perhaps a few 80MPH to 40MPH runs followed by a cool down) or none at all - just drive it like an economy car for first 100 miles. They said the few problems they have seen are from over-zealous bedding procedures that ruined the pads.

On my M3, I went no bedding and they have been fantastic. The initial bite is a little less than OEM, but total braking power was unaffected. What I did notice was 75% less brake dust. Photos of calipers/rotors after 3000+ miles on them - I've rinsed wheels and calipers a couple times, but no attempt to clean beyond that. Still look great.

RS-4's are a street pad, there are others for the track. However, I'm looking forward to the greatly reduced brake dust for the F type, the OEM pads were ridiculous.
+1. I break in pads with ordinary use* and time. After 500 miles the Porterfields now require less pedal pressure than the OEM for the same stopping force without the initial (and annoying) grabiness.


*which includes some occasional high speed bail-out on the Capital Beltway.
 
  #495  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:06 AM
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Cool evening, 1/4 tank of fuel, no passenger, had to take a drive with the new rotors installed. Very impressed. Seems like the cumulative effect of the lighter forged wheels and now these lighter rotors is really making the front end seem more nimble - car responds quicker to steering input and steering feels lighter. Too soon to evaluate braking power, but that annoying grabbiness is gone. Worthwhile upgrade for appearance and handling enhancements alone. Add in the ability to keep my wheels clean and this is one legit upgrade.

605hp tune on a cool night in low gears with now over 170lbs in reduced weight = simply manic acceleration. This car should have come from the factory with these parts.
 

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  #496  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chawumba
This car should have come from the factory with these parts.
+1. You are not imagining the much lighter steering feel. The steering input required to overcome the gyroscopic forces at speed has been very perceptively reduced. The car does indeed feel much more nimble.
 
  #497  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
+1. You are not imagining the much lighter steering feel. The steering input required to overcome the gyroscopic forces at speed has been very perceptively reduced. The car does indeed feel much more nimble.
You've previously noted that with your lowering springs, the "dynamic" shock setting provided adequate damping. Have you noticed anything in that regard with the reduction in unsprung weight?
 
  #498  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by lizzardo
You've previously noted that with your lowering springs, the "dynamic" shock setting provided adequate damping. Have you noticed anything in that regard with the reduction in unsprung weight?
Yes, the car can now be driven with the suspension in non-dynamic mode without excessive float.
 
  #499  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Yes, the car can now be driven with the suspension in non-dynamic mode without excessive float.
Thanks. That's something I've been wondering about.

I hope to get them installed tomorrow, otherwise it'll be at least mid-July.
 
  #500  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR
Definitely a First Word only problem, for those who have two piece brake rotors. With anything else the splash shields are completely hidden by the rotors.
Suggestion - use two maybe three coats from a rattle can of gloss black caliper paint, should work well and be fairly easy to do as long as you mask off the area behind and thoroughly clean and prep the splash shields beforehand (they are aloooooominum).
If you are really picky you could take the splash shields right off and paint them up on your workbench, but the problem is two of the three fixing points are rivets which would need to be drilled out and then refixed somehow. I did this when I upgraded the rear brakes from 326 mm to 376 mm and I used some 10 mm nuts and bolts to hold two of the fixing points, but I don't know if this would work for the front splash shields (it's a question of access to the rear). I wouldn't bother and I would just leave them in place and use a rattle can.
Originally Posted by OzXFR
See post #467.
The rear heat/dust/splash shields are each held on with three fixings.
The top one is a screw which also holds an electrical wire connector (ABS?), real easy to remove and replace.
But the other two are rivets!
When I replaced the rear 326 mm brakes with 376 mm brakes I had to replace the splash shields as well.
I simply broke the rivets off by inserting a large screwdriver between the back of the splash shield and the hub and bashed it with a heavy hammer until the rivets broke in half. Doing this made a small tear in each of the splash shield rivets holes, but it didn't bother me as those splash shields were being scrapped. In hindsight, and especially if you want to reuse the splash shields and not damage them, it would have been better to drill the rivets out.
As I don't have a riveter I bolted the new splash shields on in those two spots using some roughly 2.5 cm long 10 mm bolts, nuts and washers I had lying around. It was bit of a hassle getting the nut on the back of each bolt as there isn't much space between the shield and the hub, but with some perseverance I got there in the end. There was no problem with the head of the bolt on the front of the shield as the rivet spots are recessed enough to fit a small bolt head into.
So, long story short, if you want to take the splash shields off you need to figure out the best way of getting those rivets out without damaging the splash shields and then a way to reattach the splash shields.
I don't know for sure about the front splash shields but I would be very surprised if they are not attached in exactly the same way as the rears.
I've tried looking up the part numbers for these Splash Shields, and am finding many, many variants without any clarity as to which one is correct for my vehicle. Would appreciate greatly if someone can positively ID the correct splash shield part numbers for a 2015 R Coupe...
Much thanks.
 


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