Background:

April, 2023

Drove a 2018 S model V-6 AWD 340 hp last year and fell in love

18,000 miles on the clock

Great handling, powerful and sounded great

Drove a 2016 S model V6 380 hp at Carmax, was less than impressed, didn't feel as good as the 2018

Same day, on a whim, went to the Jag dealer and test drove a 2021 2.liter 4 pot, first edition with very low expectations.

Was totally surprised and impressed with the overall feel and performance, but that car was the wrong color.

Flew to Baltimore and bought a 2021 2 liter First Edition with 6,000 miles on the clock

Added the Ragazzon exhaust and am quite happy with this car. It's my daily driver.

Recently tossed the Pirellis and got the Michelins

Somehow a random ad shows up on my laptop for a red 450 with 500 miles on it at my JLR dealer.

So, what the hell, went down to look at it. Firenze red with tan interior.

This is a RWD model - my preference for Florida, especially with no maintenance required for the transfer case and front axels

The car is outstanding - BEAUTIFUL.

When they rolled her out my heart bounced and I thought, OH SHIP, I'm gonna trade in my Beautiful white 300

This one was owned by an old guy who had difficulty getting in and out.

Took it for a test drive - wow, compared to the P300, the low end torque is remarkable.

The car felt markedly heavier in the front, and that combined with the dynamic suspension made it feel better on the road.

High marks for the above.

Same size tires/wheels as my P300

Two items surprised me, and I'm seeking opinions here

1. despite the much higher torque, the P300 is very spritely to drive, especially in Dynamic S mode, keeping the RPM range up a bit. The big 450 V-* while more powerful was not as big a difference as I anticipated.

2. The sound. What a surprising disappointment - NOT KIDDING !

This car had far less road noise - maybe the factory adds more sound insulation to these than the P300, or it's the 2024 year model?

Now the biggest surprise - FAR LESS EXHAUST FUN, THAN THE P300 with the Ragazzon exhaust.

At idle, the 450 wins the sound contest, hands down, however when driving around for fun, my P300 has far more pops/bangs/exhaust fun than this particular 450 V-8 did

To be fair, I put the 450 in "S" mode, little difference.

The salesperson told me the reason the 450 didnt sound as good was that the owner who drove it the first 500 miles likely babied it, and that the more I drove it the way I did, the car would adjust, and the exhaust notes would appear.

Please, PLEASE tell me the truth to this comment.

I walked into that dealership thinking I might seriously do a trade, but I walked out loving my P300 even more.

Is the sound/car learning driving style real?

Please share your comments.

BEST !

RWS

 

Is the sound/car learning driving style real?

my understanding is that the car can learn your driving style and adjust shift points but I would call BS on that subsequently having any effect on the exhaust pops and crackles. If you can’t get anything in manual mode then it’s the particulate filter and the reduced noise engine map doing their thing.

 

I went from a 2018 base couple with340 hp, which I loved by the way, to my current 2022 base couple P450 and the performance level increased substantially. The only disappointment in upgrading was the lack of crackles and pops from the exhaust...which was completely solved by the removal of Fuse 15. It's insane the difference it made and I was definitely a skeptic when I read the suggestions on here for removing that fuse.
I can now play my exhaust system like an instrument by controlling RPMs and feathering of the accelerator. It's awesome!

 

Is this guy a used car salesman by any chance?

I found out a long time ago that when you find a car you really enjoy, be satisfied. It's like when you get married, look...but don't touch!

 

I say go for it. I personally never liked the idea of a 4 cylinder in this car. That said, I have never driven one, so it would be unfair to fully judge the car until that happens.

That red is very nice.

 

We have that colour in our F type and the XE. I have 450hp in the f type (modded v6) and in my Mustang (v8), and 300 in the XE. So I'm kind of familiar with both, here is my 2 cents worth.

I love engine note, particularly from an 8. So for me if I didnt have the Mustang to scratch the v8 itch I would need a v8 in the F type. +1 for the 450
That said, if you prefer the tuned exhaust from the p300, the v8 noise isnt getting you anything better than what you have. - 1 for the 450
For me the Firenze colour is fantastic. Every time I wash the car the colour dazzles, I get people coming up, giving me the hang loose sign, waving virtually all the time. 7 years on, the car is still like a rock star. Unfortunately I am not. +2 for the 450 if you like a lot of attention
The white however is very nice, I could do plenty with black wrap on your white car, but the red is next level
performance wise, I'm going to go against the herd here. The p300 is a fantastic engine. For 99% of the time it is going to do exactly what you want. Sure the 450 is plenty faster, but if I was on a small track I'd rather drive the p300 which I reckon I could take closer to its limit. I have been in hot laps in all of the engines in the f type, the p300 is still scary enough driven well, though the R is brutal. If you like handling and attacking corners, the p300 might be more enjoyable. So for the average punter who enjoys twisties, I'm going to go for the p300. - 1 for the 450
if however you like to plant your foot from the lights in a straight line (does anyone do that anymore?) or you are a great driver, then the 450 will eat up the p300. +1 for the 450
Maintenance, running, insurance definitely - 1 for the 450
Acquisition cost - 2 for the 450 but then resale better (subject to being a little harder to move a red car in some markets), I think no clear winner there.

OK so it was a fun exercise but it comes down to if you love attention, go the 450, if you are not mad on attention and love attacking corners, maybe the p300 is the car for you.

 

Did this move 2020 P300 to a 2023 P450 R-Dynamic AWD...there are days where I miss the P300, had the same setup as you with the Ragazzon Exhaust.
The 450 is definitely heavier and not as nimble as the 300 was, going through curvy side roads were a little more fun in it, also agree with you on the torque feeling. I was expecting a huge jump and it wasn't that crazy, don't get me wrong it is faster...but I would've thought more with all the bashing the 4pot gets by people lol.
As for the exhaust sound, I think the 450 sounds good...definitely doesn't have all the pops the 300 had or even the earlier F-Types, but the sound itself is great. I'm also kind of over the pop noises since everybody and their mom around me has that tune on their cars so it's over done a little.
Like others said resale would be better on the 450, if you care about that. The red looks amazing, I went with BRG but there was a red in the showroom and if it wasn't a convertible I might've gone for it.

 

Could always compare apples to apples and upgrade the exhaust on the P450 later to that Quicksilver exhaust or whatever that I keep hearing about and/or pull fuse 15 etc...

Im a bit surprised to hear that people don't feel the diff in power is a lot more, but I guess an R would be the one to make that difference much larger.

 

The p300 pulls pretty hard and constant, if you didnt know it was a 4 you'd think it was a 4 litre NA V8. So it feels fast with the power delivery, but that is essentially pushing it close to its limits whereas you dont really smash about the 450 or R anywhere near their limits in normal driving. I can probably drive our p300 better than I can our 450hp F Type, though there is more excitement in the 450hp car for sure, like the excitement you might get handling a live grenade.

 

We had a '21 First Edition P300 too, it was white with red interior, beautiful car, drove great, my wife loved it. Even with that 4 cylinder that car went quick, she had fun with 911s on the highway too.
Then she traded it in on a RS5 Limited Edition, loved and hated the car, wanted her F back. So last year got her out of the RS5, and she got a LC500 Conv. loves the car. I ended up trading my car, BMW M550i, for a special order '23 F-Type R, SVO Paint, ebony/oyster interior. I love the car, was exactly what I wanted. She finally drove it about 3 weeks later, fell in love with it all over. It's different than the P300, which was lighter and drove more stiff, the V8 makes this car heavier, then add the AWD and it's quite a bit heavier, but the ride is much nicer. It doesn't get loud until about 3500 rpm, but I'm about to pull fuse 15. Go with what you feel, to me they all have this soul, that calls to different people, you will know if you really think about how they make you feel.

 

I appreciate all the replies.

Yes, the 450 is much faster, and the torque is fun.

The red is amazing, and it's far more car.

Other than the dynamic suspension, the only difference option wise is my car has the heated windshield, otherwise they are optioned the same.

My '21 P300 has 18,000 on the clock (had 6,000 when I bought it)

So, my car plus $41,000.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm really not getting $41,000 more car than I have now.

I do love shifting the P300 with the accelerator pedal, giving her the throttle, then releasing it for the upshift.

That action seems to be a bit much for the torquey V8

I really do appreciate all the comments.

Here's an interesting review on the 2 liter:

Certainly NOT the Rodney Dangerfield of F types.




BEST !

RWS

 

I dont want to dominate this thread but this kind of resonates with me as I had a similar dilemma several years back, I developed a massive hard on for the noise of the R and was considering trading my v6S (which I really love) in for one, or a manual vantage.

Anyway, I was a bee's dick away from committing to a used SVR, but none really had everything mine did (eg red one but not IRR, blue one but no pano roof), the changeover back then was about $100K and stamp duty was about $15K which actually shat me off more than the $100K changeover. And then when I rationalised it (which is never a good sign because cars are such an irrational purchase) I figured - 1. I use the car mainly to drive to work; 2. I wanted the v8 because of the sound from launch; 3. generally I would stop at lights maybe 3 times on the way to and from work; 4. launch to cruise speed was about 4 seconds max; 5. so I was really looking for about 30 seconds a day of soundy goodness, at a cost of about $100K.

So put that way, it didnt sound like such a great idea and the big head took over and I didnt proceed. Instead I spent the $15K which would have been lost on government stamp duty on mods to my car which both my big and little head considered to be an excellent investment, and I still have the car today which thanks to the gifts of COVID is probably worth more than it was back when I was considering all of this. I probably should confess I bought a mustang as well during COVID to scratch the manual and V8 itch which never fully went away, it isnt half the car that the F Type unless you are measuring in kilograms in which case it is quite a bit more car, you Americans probably wouldnt realise the appeal that Mustangs have here in Australia as we have only since 2016 been able to buy them new here, it serves as a workhorse/pickup but that is really an excuse to have that booming v8 and oh so industrial manual shift.

 

Thanks Bruce,

A bit of back story, my previous car was a 2013 Mustang GT

I added the GT 500 mufflers, cold air intake and the functional hood scoop setup

Removed the quarter windows and installed the SILVERHORSE inserts. Also added a lot of sound deadening in the doors & trunk (need to do the same to the Jag) to kill road noise as to better enjoy the exhaust tones

In the 1970's I owned a '69 Mustang and the S197 series harkens back to those design cues.

The GT500 exhaust was not loud, it was RICH.

I was really expecting more from that red 450 - - - like I said, when they rolled her out in front of the dealership, I was sure I would be buying that car that day.

Here's the previous - had her 9 years as a daily driver:

 

<SNIP>

EXACTLY how I drive the P300, and it's FUN !

 

That's a good price on a beautiful car, with the same engine as the R, which is tuned to 575hp, a difference you would definitely notice. Buy this and get a tune. That can also augment the pops and crackles.

 

The P450 is a steal - it's the price-point value leader of all F-types ever produced. The MSRP on my 2015 V8s was over $100k and that was 9-yrs ago. Just saying if I was in the market, the P450 is the one I'd get.

 

Reviving this thread.

Drove a 2023 R model at the dealership this week.

Night and day difference from the 450, including the sound that was missing on the 450 in December.

Changed my paradigm completely.

The problem I see and am experiencing is the cost of depreciation.......

My 2021 P300 dropped a whopping 27% in value this year. Bought her with 6,000 miles on the clock, she stands with 23,000 presently.

My 2021 is a First Edition with every option, including the heated front windshield with an MSRP of $80,725

Added the Ragazzon exhaust - beyond wonderful and surprisingly more sound than the base 450 I drove

Appears I could pick up a 2021 + for about $80 and get about $40 for mine.

With a years worth of 2024 F-Type supply in factory/dealer inventory and depreciation being what it is I'm betting I could make this deal with a nationwide search by the end of the year.

Fact is, these cars are not selling right now.

I'm quite willing to travel, did the same when I bought the P300 last year - - was a 2 day drive to bring her home.

Don't get me wrong, I truly do love my loaded 300 horse car. That lightweight engine and the balance and the handling and the sound is wonderful for a 67 year old guy who's not dragging corvettes at the red light.

But I don't want a base 450, there's a Firense red one at Peoria Toyota right now - a BASE 450 with 1,100 miles on the clock which can be had for about $60,000 but its a BASE and I love those AC seats and the top end Meridian sound system way too much

So..... let's see what might turn up and what might be had for my car + 40 by the end of the year.

Limited to 2 color preferences, which makes the odds even worse, #1 is Firense Red, #2 is Fuji White.

Am I crazy?

BEST !

RWS

 

We have Firenze on my missus' XE, IRR for my F Type which is supposed to be the same although they do look a tiny bit different side by side. If you like attention (which I do), it is a fantastic colour, I am often getting told how beautiful the car is. It is also pretty easy to keep clean, though it gets more attention when it has just been washed as the colour pops a bit more, especially in the sun. Oddly enough my wife's car started quite pinkey looking but over the past 5 years has settled to the more maroon-ey colour.

It is my fave colour in the F Type, though they look good in all shades.

 

Of course I could always do a P450 and a tune, but I'd then be losing the warranty - don't want to do THAT !

BEST !

RWS

 

Yep! Glacier (now Yulong) White trumps Fuji White.