I'd put him on my ignore list just before that and was looking forward a more enjoyable forum experience. The directive to me to stop nit-picking and let the grownups who want to talk seriously about performance was what did it for me. I think he was coming unglued at that point. I expect he couldn't cope with not only *not* being hailed as the expert in Everything when he arrived, but being called out for being flat wrong. I'm sure he saw it as us ganging up on him, and he lost it. <shrug>

Anyone remember usenet? The Real internet? Reminds me of the good old days on alt.folklore.urban. I found it amusing for several days, but the entertainment value plummeted with increased exposure. I stopped visiting after someone called a statement of mine counter to the laws of physics. It wasn't :/

 

I skip gears too. The fat part of the power band is fatter, so I don't need to shift as much for desired results. That's with tune only. I haven't done anything with pulleys yet. I'm still waiting to get my two-piece rotors on the car. I should be able to do that soon.

 

I am to guess that it was V8S?... Sometimes, even correct opinions are best kept private. I do recall a threat of a lawsuit against me as well not long ago. In any event, if somebody posted such an opinion, giving it any credibility.... by then adding a post like this isn't very productive. It's like antagonizing the genius.

A valid technical debate is always cool (in my opinion). Name calling is not necessary at all and a clear sign that the person is unable to articulate nor that he/she has any valid point left.

As an outsider I see however a blind level of trust and a strong loyalty to VAP. That's good for VAP but at times I see it blinding some from actually recognizing other very valid opinions that can be less popular. Keeping an eye towards other options and treating others with respect isn't all that hard. With that said, if it was V8S, in the sprintbooster thread I lost my patience as well, but I think that my replies remained professional and free of personal attacks.

 

The ZF transmission control module evaluates several parameters in picking the gear. It works mostly independently of the ECM. Having more torque only affects how you use the accelerator, based on the load, speed, throttle position the transmission selects the best suited gear. In effect you control the gear with changes on those parameters and the only one you truly control is the accelerator pedal position... At highway cruising speed, unless there is a substantial hill requiring torque that exceeds the available one at a given RPM the transmission will NOT downshift. The argument can be valid if you bring into the equation cruising speed up a hill. Other than that, the F-Type stock can easily and happily do 80MPH in 8th gear on an ordinary level road.

The truth in the end is that folks tuning their car drive mostly hard. This in conjunction with higher boost pressure, ALWAYS causes greater stress and wear on the engine. If you didn't want the increase in power... why tuning it? If you use that extra power, you are stressing the engine mor, plain and simple. There is nothing wrong with that, just know tat it's a pay to play game, ignore the warranty, know that you will need to do more maintenance and you will have a shorter drivetrain lifespan. To say otherwise is simply not true and unfair.

 

While I agree that level of trust in VAP on this forum is high, it isn't exactly blind. So far, VAP has a record of verified claims and reliable product.

However, I agree that too many people are uncritical of tuning - there are downsides to any tuning, and they are not adequately discussed. Too many times the narrative is: "Free power, go get your leased car tuned. It is going to be fine no matter what." This is why I asked Stuart if he is monitoring engine failures of tuned cars.

I trust there is nothing obvious and immediately wrong with his tunes, but there is always longevity concerns. Probable example, increased boost after tune and pulley requires more frequent oil changes or you end up with sludge in intake manifold (e.g. Audi issue). However, how many VAP customers understand that you can’t tune a car, hammer it hard AND go 10K/1 year between oil changes?

 

 

Well said. As far as the rest, I love a healthy debate between intelligent people but with some people there comes a point where you realize that you can't have a logical discussion with illogical people......had the appropriate steps not been taken by the mods, I also would have been exploring the "ignore list" as lizzardo was wise to do.

Dave

 

That goes to prove my point. Arden and Viezu also offer great options and fantastic people to work with. I personally don't care as my personal experience with VAP has been terrible from never receiving replies to nasty 11:00PM messages to legal threats. Additionally, I like to work with people that are actually real Automotive engineers that have substantial experience in far more than optimizing ECU maps and welding exhaust pipes.

Prepping a car for greater performance is a far more comprehensive approach. The other two companies I mentioned, either offer those capabilities in house or via multiple outside subject matter experts that co-develop tailor made products. Again, I personally don't care about VAP, nor do I bash them, I enjoy working with people that race their cars and I found a fantastic group of people in the F-Type, Aston Martin, Lotus and McLaren crowd. I also find the latter 3 far more open minded. Everyone is free to pick whatever they like best and the people they like to work with, The replies above clearly show that some speak more like brand ambassadors than objective customers.

Now I am quite confident that sharing a not so good experience will result in attacks or deletion (or banning). The fact is, that was my experience and I can back it up. I also think that starting a thread to tease somebody that clearly was a bit off is also rather unprofessional and pointless, he won the battle... why post this???

 

I disagree; most of us here aren't "brand ambassadors" we've all simply had good experiences with VAP and Stuart has been helpful and an asset to this forum IMO. Not sure what your experience has been but it should be clear that it isn't the same experience as the rest of us have had. Frankly, I trust VAP more than the other vendors you mention when it comes to F type tunes based on everything that has been posted here over the last several years. I suspect that if you continue to "share your not so good experience" and criticize VAP and their products that members that have had contrary experiences will chime in to provide counterpoint.

Cheers,
Dave

 

Picking a proper oil change interval for a street car is rather difficult as driving habits, weather, temperature, engine status have a lot to do with it and far more than just "having a tune".

On a race car, it's easy, most of the times the heat cycles and use are very similar, by using engine oil analysis, one develops a reliable schedule. On a race car, the enemy of the oil is the faster oxidation that occurs at extremely high temperatures. Proper engineering principles dictate that the engine needs to have enough oil cooling to keep it at no more than 225 degrees, not only to slow down oil degradation but also to prevent it from becoming too thin and drop in oil pressure as the oil will flow far more easily between the gaps and provide inadequate protection.

In a street car (prepared or not), the main enemy is the formation of moisture that combines with the garbage wiped by the oil. Short trips where the oil doesn't reach 212 degrees are the worst. But countering that is the fact that the oil and detergents remain stronger due to not being exposed to extreme temperatures. As mentioned earlier, I test the oil on all my fleet rather often and 10k miles is not unreasonable IF the other variables are acceptable Please note that I gave encouraged the use of an oil catch can.

 

Short trips are very bad for cars, especially where engines don't get upto temperature like you say as then you risk fuel dilution which then lowers the oil viscosity and as our cars use already 0W-20 oil, the last thing you want is it getting much thinner.

Avoid short trips, avoid over heating the oil and generally changing the oil every 5000 miles is good practice on any car performance car.

 

The short version and 100% correct. I had a fantastic meeting with the engineers at Motul. There was so much to learn from them about oil life, specific additives and detergents. There is a ton of science and plenty of trial and error unfortunately. That was what convinced me more than ever to test my oil often. It's cheap insurance.

 

Let's just keep in mind that sports cars are not designed for heavy track use. By heavy track use, I don't mean a new owner taking their sports car to the track for the very first time to experience the limits but an experienced driver who drives the car very hard for lap times. Heavy track use will not only require careful monitoring of engine oil (temperature and testing the oil) but also the stock brakes and suspension, which were not designed to be exposed to the forces of track for long periods of time.

Quite frankly, if you are a serious track rat you will get a dedicated track car. What works well on the track simply does not work well on the street and vice versa (think tires!). I don't even want to think of the cost of consumables of racing a 4,000lb sports car like the F-Type three times a week on the track and the seconds of lap times that will be left on the table due to the heavy curb weight. That is unless you have a "race build' F-Type.

 

We do have a strong loyalty. 'blind level of trust' implies that the people placing the trust don't have any reason to, which clearly is not the case. There is a spectrum of knowledge and experience levels. In my humble opinion there are some very knowledgeable contributors here (like owners who work in the automotive engineering field) who, for good reason, place their trust in us. Probably because we have a track record of having earned it, and because Chris, who is now with us full time is a factory trained Jaguar technician with 15 years experience and the number 1 rated Aston Martin tech in the Americas.

Loyalty, yes. Blind Trust, I don't agree with that statement.

 

 

 

This thread is starting to go sideways.

 

 

Stuart... I also stated many times that for tunes, you (VAP) as well as a very short list of others (Viezu, Arden) are strongly suggested. Of course we can settle any difference comparing certified dyno charts of two F-Type V6 and V8 or a friendly track race... I will gladly drive and you are welcome to do that too.

 

I close the forums tab on my browser for two days and I miss popcorn-worthy stuff. Never again.