Season 20 Episode 6: I think it airs this week on BBC America in The States? SPOILER ALERT!!!! - I'm paraphrasing and going from memory however essentially Jeremy Clarkson drove it and liked: the exhaust noise and sport mode, the interior features and electronics, feel and noise of a 60's roadster.
Didn't like:The fact the spare wheel is smack bang in the middle of the trunk leaving little room for any luggage, the cost, prices were in pounds sterling but Clarkson thought it was 15 - 40% more pricey than he expected depending on the model and most worryingly the noise and rumbling the suspension makes when driving, it was like going over cobblestones on a flat road. He did say that putting your foot down alleviates this and smooths the ride out.
I couldn't find it on Youtube yet, not exactly a glowing review, especially on the cost compared to similar models and the ride. I must admit I was taken aback by the price when I first saw one.

 

I'm assuming/hoping that episode will include the 'best of British' - that is an astonishing collection of cars.
Top Gear caught filming Best of British near Buckingham Palace - Autoblog

 

Yes, that's the episode. It's quite a British episode as they road test the Range Rover sport and new London bus as well as the Jaguar F type. They cast a pretty broad net looking at the 'best of British'.

 

That Range Rover Sport is pretty darn impressive. And who wouldn't love the F-Type?! British automotive products are on their way back to the top!

I thought Jeremy Clarkson didn't really get into enough detail on this review, but I imagine they will do a more thorough one later. He commented mostly about the awesome sounds it makes and the beautiful looks (which I'm sure anyone would agree with!).

 

Clarkson should have tested the V8 as well as the V6. And I know as a reporter he has to find SOMETHING negative to say. But his rant about the trunk was typical Clarkson. Find something to complain about and yet that something is always something that doesn't have to be there - i.e., the spare tire. Many sports cars (as in almost ALL sports cars and almost all super cars) do not have spare tires at all. They rely on run flats or other technology. I don't have a spare in my F-Type and while I would certainly agree that the trunk is far from roomy, I can get two small suitcases in there easily.

And I don't know if the ride in the V6 is tighter than the V8 or not but his complaints about a stiff ride don't jive with my experience driving my V8S. Yes it is stiffer than the average Jag. It's supposed to be stiffer. It's a sports car.

On the whole I really enjoyed the episode. The music, video, etc was amazing and my family tree goes back to the 1500s in England. I was proud of my British heritage as I watched all the British cars join together at the end. It was something to see the three F-Types lead the way with the Union Jack in tow.

 

First, I do not own an F-type. I do have a 2012 XJL and my wife drives a 2012 XF. In recent years I owned an '05 and an '08 XKs.

I found it interesting that Jeremy mentioned the choppy ride. That is because when I test drove the V8 F-type, I found the dampening to be better than on my XF and even better than on the XJL. Perhaps, the weight difference due to the engine had Jaguar use different dampening rates for the V6 S?.

At this point I am quite disappointed with the Jaguar suspension team. They seem to mess up either the handling (my '05XK and '08XK) or the ride. My XJL has a terrible ride and the XF is only marginally better when used over less than perfect road surfaces. The brand new V6 XJ loaner that I am driving today also has terrible ride over minor surface ripples.

The very recent Autocar review of the new XJR said this about the ride:

"We have reservation about the ride quality. The XJR jittered over the odd piece of scarred tarmac..."

So, bad, jittery rides on the XJ, on the XF, on the XJR and now on the V6 F-type S. I personally feel like Jaguar should fire their suspension team and hire some better qualified people. It IS possible to make suspensions compliant and have an acceptable ride at the same time. No excuses, particularly for the big luxury sedans. I was hoping that with the F-type finally Jaguar produced a car that both handles well and rides well. Not according to Jeremy...

I do hope Jaguar reads this post and make an effort to adjust their suspension settings. Otherwise, as one who drives my cars regularly over distances, 150 miles each way, count me out as a future owner. I do not like or want un-necessary suspension vibrations during my long travels.

Albert

 

I wonder if he had dynamic mode on when he made that comment. My XKR normally rides nicely, but I removed Fuse 14 to "engage dynamic mode" (ghetto 4.2L way of doing it) and now the car rides much more stiff and jittery.

 

I really like the V6S ride, and every passenger I've had has agreed. I don't drive on great roads. I find it firm but not harsh or choppy at all. Granted, I've hit a few bad surfaces where it isn't great, but overall I find it very enjoyable.

 

I drive my 5.0 liter XKR almost exclusively with dynamic mode engaged and with the paddles. Plus I lowered the car with H&R springs. With creamy smooth roads I get creamy smooth dynamics. With others, I don't. My Honda minivan eats up bad roads better than my XKR now, and even did in most situations before I started using dynamic mode and modified the XKR's springs.

But the feeling of connectedness to what the car is doing makes this all worthwhile to me. My previous Jag was a 2004 XJR, and that car was "smoother" over all surfaces but the creamiest. But the overdone steering assist and isolation from the road was simply not what I enjoy about driving.

Different folks, different strokes, for sure.

 

Albert I am curious - you seem to have many complaints about the Jags. Why mess with them at all? I haven't had your exact cars so I can't be sure what your problem has been but I have had six new Jags since 2011 and loved every one of them. No car is perfect, but I really, really don't get your comments about the ride. Perhaps I am lucky and have good copies of all these cars, but I find the ride just fine. I had an 11 XJL rode like a dream. I have a 13 XJL rides like a dream. My XK is smooth as silk. The f-type is tight. It's supposed to be. Soft suspensions and sports cars don't go together. I am sorry your luck has been so bad but I suspect that Jaguar will keep making cars whether or not you are a future prospect

 

Valid question.

First, I have to fess up that thus far in my history of cars, there has not been one that entirely satisfied me. That is due to the manufacturer's concerns about how to set up cars, like making their handling too neutral for the average driver and get him into trouble that way. So, I modified nearly every car owned to suit my preferences. Jags are very difficult to modify because no aftermarket exists to supply custom parts. If I could I would change springs, dampers and sway bars on my Jaguars to make them fit my preferences.

I have had 5 Jaguars in my decades of car ownership. The first one, an early '80s XJ6-L was unquestionably the worst car I had ever owned. It had all the Lucas electrical faults and fluids leaked from everywhere, overheated under normal CA summer conditions, blew a head gasket just out of warranty...etc. Loved the looks and comfort of the car BUT, kept me from even looking at an other Jag for 25 years.

My '05 XK was purchased on the promise of quality improvements from Ford. Gorgeous looks is what sold me and I tolerated the absolute substandard handling for that. I constructed a custom dual stock-swaybar setup on the rear to reduce the terrible understeer to simply still bad levels. Also, terrible ride on its 18" wheels. In nearly its last year of production the '05 XK was at least a decade behind in chassis design but, it was 100 percent reliable during my 3 years of ownership. Traded it for the '08XK.

My '08XK improved on the handing but, still a far cry as to what it could or should have been. Too much understeer and a dead steering that I called the "Dial A Prayer" when driving it on my local, narrow, steep canyon roads. The ride on the 19" wheels was much better than the '05 on smaller wheels, thanks to the electronically controlled dampers. So, no ride complaints with the '08. Again, purchased mostly for its beautiful looks. Served me well on my long trips as the ride was good enough and the lack of advanced electronics did not bother me much. Completely reliable, not a single problem. Traded it for the 2012 XJL in hopes of getting an even more comfortable long-distance car.

2012 XJL - Better steering and more neutral handling than either of my XKs. Gorgeous lines, which is, once again, was my primary motivation for the purchase. Terrible ride over less than perfect surfaces. I read through likely all available pro-reviews on the XJ. About half says the ride is great and the other half said the ride was bad. I suspect that my judgments regarding the harsh ride is the direct result of me having a commute that is 2.5 hours and 150 miles non-stop freeway driving over less than perfect roads. Under those conditions the ride harshness is additive and ultra bothersome. Not something one would expect from a saloon car. When I do drive the car mostly in-town, mostly over decent surfaces, the ride is acceptable. I suspect that to be the main difference between the "good ride" and the "bad ride" camps. Sometimes, like yesterday, I was driving my wife's XF over miles of good pavement and I found the ride to be perfect; until I hit a section where visually the pavement was in good shape but, the car was punishing me with hard suspension responses and steering wheel movements that can not be called good or normal as many of my other cars will not respond like that. I have long suspected that one of the main reasons for the harsh ride is the use of low profile tires. The extreme short sidewalls are built to be extremely stiff in order to prevent rim damage in potholes. Thus the sidewall flex is almost non-existent. My good friend and racing sponsor who owns a Goodyear tire dealership and race car construction shop agrees with that theory. With today's low profile tires we are missing the shock absorbing qualities of the taller sidewalls, therefore, we can not reproduce the great rides of years past where a good BMW could run on 60 or 65 series tires, providing great handling and a great ride. It is just a really bad trend where customers are demanding even larger rims, not connecting the consequences to the bad ride. Unless you drove an older BMW you probably do not know how good handling AND great ride can go hand in hand. Still, no excuse that cars like the XF or the XJL responds harsher to pavement imperfections than the XK on the same 19" rims/tires.

Having driven new nearly all variations of Jaguar's current offerings, V6, V8 XFs and XJL, Xk, F-type, my conclusion is that something IS wrong with my particular XJL. The service manager is willing to change the suspension computer on my advice. But, having driven all those brand new cars now over distances I have to conclude that their rides (XF and XJ) over less than perfect road surfaces are nearly unacceptable. That is too bad, because I like the looks and the luxury of the cars and, frankly do not know what else to get. All higher brand cars these days came with low profile tires so, luxury prices no longer guaranty you luxury rides.

One poster above compared the ride of his XKR to his minivan. I also have a minivan and I can tell you that its ride on its 65 series tires is superior to my XJL. There is something wrong with that. I purchase a HUGE luxury car, expecting to be cuddled and treated in a luxurious environments of ride and interior quality. Well, the ride in my luxury cars (XF and XJL) is definitely far worse than either my minivan or that loaner Hyundai Sonata (also on 60 tires) that I got from the dealer.

So, in conclusion; I was the dealer again last night, talking to the Service Manager; I told him that I would NOT be back as a Jaguar buyer as long as the ride of the cars remain this poor and as long as I have to drive them long distances over the same surface conditions that exist in my driving area. Driving my minivan or anything like that Hyundai is preferable to having a rough ride transmitting hits and vibrations through the seat, floor and steering wheel for hours.

Albert

 

He thought the V8 was too much, then again he didn't drive it:


Here is the salute to British cars:

 

The best riding Jag we/I have ever owned is the 1998 VDP. That thing rode like a plush limo.

The handling was not really firm - it had some body roll - but it was not meant to be driven on a track. On the interstate or road it handled fine. Every time I think about that car I wish we had kept it. It also had beautiful lines.

The ride comfort of the 05 VDP was not good when we first purchased it. Then we put the Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires on and WOW! The ride became pretty good, but not quite as good as the 1998 VDP.

Our current 2011 XJL ride suffers because of the Pirelli tires that are on...while it is a decent ride even with the Pirelli tires (noisy but decent), I am positive the ride will be outstanding when the Pirelli tires are replaced. It does not, however, vibrate and bounce. We've gone over some pretty bad "bumps" in the road only to not hardly feel them.

Albert, I've read enough of your posts to know you have tried changing tires and other things to improve your ride. To be obvious, it's perplexing to many of us as to how your XJL can be so different to others. I feel an empathy for you and wish I could help in some way reading some of your experiences with the ride.

Sincerely hope the dealer gets this worked out for you.

 

Thanks for the empathy. The Service Manager did relate to my issues last night, mentioning an other customer that purchased a 2013 XJL with the supposedly improved spring and dampers rates that, according to Jaguar, supposed to increase chassis isolation from road imperfections. By doing so Jaguar admits ride issues with the '11 and '12 models. The customer, just like me, repeatedly complained that the ride was worse than her traded-in 2011, otherwise identical XJL. No codes or any fault found. Finally, the Service decided to try and replace the suspension computer and, bingo, the ride improved and the customer is happy. We will try that next on my car to see if it helps.

Besides my personal car, I drove a number of others and I still find the ride to be far too stiff and the suspension response to the minor road imperfections too harsh. The XJLs of today should provide at least as good a ride, NO...NO...NO...actually much better with 15 years of progress in electronic suspensions, as your 1998 VDP did with the likely 60 series tires. They clearly DO NOT. Why not? After all is it not what a luxury car should do? Also, it should not really effect the good handling, at least the quality we could expect from a limousine sized car. No one should be under the impression that a large limousine should match the handling qualities of a sports car. I think that while our perceptions of what constitutes a good ride may be different, we likely all agree that today's luxury cars do not ride nearly as well as yesterdays. Likely, the low profile tires making the most difference.

Edit; an other bad example for today's luxury car rides:

Excerpt from a new BMW M6 review.

"Also, given the sport suspension and big tires, the ride is punishing over rough pavement."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo

Albert