Lease rates
#21
05-04-2015, 03:03 PM
I've bought 3 cars using Penfed, 2 using the auto saver loan.
First, you need to join which is really easy if you have any military background. If not, then a $20 donation to the Red Cross will still get you on board.
Next, calculate out the total loan that you will want. So figure out what the total cost with tax, fees etc is. Then put that in the total vehicle cost, and put in whatever you will down pay.
Select the vehicle from the list, the loan period (3 years is the sweet spot for their saver loan) and it will calculate what the cars residual will be and what your payments are.
If you are ready to buy, you can lock that in. Their APR can change at the first of the month, but it usually doesn't. My APR got locked in at 1.74%.
Go to the dealership, buy your car. You don't pay them, only the downpayment or trade in. Penfed will send you a check that you take to your dealer, usually within 3-5 days to pay off the vehicle. At this point the dealer is completely out and you only deal with Penfed.
That's all there is to it. I sold my last car 2 years into the 3 year loan. All I had to do was pay off the loan with the check I got from selling it, then they would release the title to the new owner.
Also after your initial loan period you can refinance it as a normal used car loan if you plan on keeping the car and don't want to pay the final balloon payment.
Penfed will not take a car back, it is yours.
First, you need to join which is really easy if you have any military background. If not, then a $20 donation to the Red Cross will still get you on board.
Next, calculate out the total loan that you will want. So figure out what the total cost with tax, fees etc is. Then put that in the total vehicle cost, and put in whatever you will down pay.
Select the vehicle from the list, the loan period (3 years is the sweet spot for their saver loan) and it will calculate what the cars residual will be and what your payments are.
If you are ready to buy, you can lock that in. Their APR can change at the first of the month, but it usually doesn't. My APR got locked in at 1.74%.
Go to the dealership, buy your car. You don't pay them, only the downpayment or trade in. Penfed will send you a check that you take to your dealer, usually within 3-5 days to pay off the vehicle. At this point the dealer is completely out and you only deal with Penfed.
That's all there is to it. I sold my last car 2 years into the 3 year loan. All I had to do was pay off the loan with the check I got from selling it, then they would release the title to the new owner.
Also after your initial loan period you can refinance it as a normal used car loan if you plan on keeping the car and don't want to pay the final balloon payment.
Penfed will not take a car back, it is yours.
For example (to make the math easy) :
MSRP on car $75,000
Baloon payment owed at end of 3 years = $50,000
If I decide to sell the car 2 years in and the value of the car is $60,000 do I pocket the extra cash after I cut PenFed a 60K check?
#22
05-04-2015, 03:49 PM
awesome, thanks LynxFX. Thats exactly the info I was looking for. What if I were to sell the car 2 years into the 3 year auto saver plan
For example (to make the math easy) :
MSRP on car $75,000
Baloon payment owed at end of 3 years = $50,000
If I decide to sell the car 2 years in and the value of the car is $60,000 do I pocket the extra cash after I cut PenFed a 60K check?
For example (to make the math easy) :
MSRP on car $75,000
Baloon payment owed at end of 3 years = $50,000
If I decide to sell the car 2 years in and the value of the car is $60,000 do I pocket the extra cash after I cut PenFed a 60K check?
For exmpale when I sold my TTRS 2 years in, balloon payment was $40k, still owed a total of $45k on the car. Sold the car for $55k. So Penfed got $45k, I pocketed $10k.
Hope that makes sense for you.
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f_in_seattle (05-04-2015)
#23
05-04-2015, 04:18 PM
If you sell the car early, you pay Penfed what you owe on the loan. That is the balloon payment plus whatever principle is left for that last year of payments. When you sign up you can see what the payoff amount is at any point. It is the same as paying off a car early, you save on interest.
For exmpale when I sold my TTRS 2 years in, balloon payment was $40k, still owed a total of $45k on the car. Sold the car for $55k. So Penfed got $45k, I pocketed $10k.
Hope that makes sense for you.
For exmpale when I sold my TTRS 2 years in, balloon payment was $40k, still owed a total of $45k on the car. Sold the car for $55k. So Penfed got $45k, I pocketed $10k.
Hope that makes sense for you.
How does it work with trade-in's though? Will the trade in dealer be cutting you a check for the tradein or PenFed?
#24
05-04-2015, 04:27 PM
Trade in works like any other car. They'll ask if you owe money and if you do they'll give you a check for what the car is worth and you use that to pay off the loan, pocket any profits.
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f_in_seattle (05-04-2015)
#25
06-03-2015, 02:13 AM
Everything is always separate from Penfed and the dealership. It is purely a cash loan with the vehicle as collateral and in the end, you owe that money to Penfed no matter how you get it.
Trade in works like any other car. They'll ask if you owe money and if you do they'll give you a check for what the car is worth and you use that to pay off the loan, pocket any profits.
Trade in works like any other car. They'll ask if you owe money and if you do they'll give you a check for what the car is worth and you use that to pay off the loan, pocket any profits.
joined just to ask about this, as I'm looking at leasing an F- Type. Someone else mentioned they "potentially" lose value quickly. So, sounds like there's a risk that at the end of the penfed term (36 months) you could be stuck with a car that is underwater, correct?
I do like it because the interest rates are still low and probably will beat out any deals Jaguar can do (in addition of not having to pay origination fee and excess mile fees at the end of the lease).
I would prefer to be able to take the car to carmax and sell it off in 36 month or before that and not have to worry about potentially hitting the balloon payment.
#26
06-03-2015, 02:37 AM
Penfed is pretty conservative on their residual value of the car so I highly doubt you would be underwater after 3 years. However if you are planning on taking it to Carmax, well that is a different story. They'll low ball you more than any dealer. Better to just sell it privately at that point. Spend $50 and put it on all the sites, cars.com, autotrader and KBB. Pretty much all you need.
The real only negative to the penfed payment saver loan vs a traditional lease is that you pay sales tax on the full amount with penfed, vs just the monthly lease payment on a lease. If your State has low sales tax or no sales tax then penfed comes out ahead by a lot.
An example: I sold my last car financed through penfed payment saver for $15k over the final balloon payment. I used that money as the down payment on the F-type. The F-type would have to crash over 50% in 3 years to be below penfed's residual price they are listing.
The real only negative to the penfed payment saver loan vs a traditional lease is that you pay sales tax on the full amount with penfed, vs just the monthly lease payment on a lease. If your State has low sales tax or no sales tax then penfed comes out ahead by a lot.
An example: I sold my last car financed through penfed payment saver for $15k over the final balloon payment. I used that money as the down payment on the F-type. The F-type would have to crash over 50% in 3 years to be below penfed's residual price they are listing.
#27
06-03-2015, 03:42 AM
I just purchased my new F-Type using the PenFed payment saver loan at 36 months. From what I've seen of sales from 2014 until now, the residual on my car at the end of the 36 months should allow me a bit of equity in the car at the end.
I really enjoy my car, so I am thinking that I may decide to keep it at the end and buy it out, but if not I should be able to sell and get some money back if I like.
But between the interest rate and the lower principal payments, this is a better deal than a lease or traditional loan in my opinion. The only real risk is that something could happen to cause the value of the car to spiral to lower than the planned residual at the end of the term. In which case, I would have to eat the difference. But I'm going into it with my eyes open. Cars are not investments, so I expect to lose money either way. But the enjoyment should more than make up for it.
I really enjoy my car, so I am thinking that I may decide to keep it at the end and buy it out, but if not I should be able to sell and get some money back if I like.
But between the interest rate and the lower principal payments, this is a better deal than a lease or traditional loan in my opinion. The only real risk is that something could happen to cause the value of the car to spiral to lower than the planned residual at the end of the term. In which case, I would have to eat the difference. But I'm going into it with my eyes open. Cars are not investments, so I expect to lose money either way. But the enjoyment should more than make up for it.
#28
06-03-2015, 05:09 AM
#29
06-03-2015, 09:42 AM
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Looks like some folks have the rate sheet which is absolutely required when negotiating a lease. You can often get the MF/RV on the Edmunds forums (2016 F-Type Lease Questions - Car Forums at Edmunds.com)
I've leased a handful of vehicles. I've also had every dealer try to mark up the MF. It's often called "dealer participation" or some other nonsense. Since they can't change the RV you just need to make sure you are getting the book MF for your credit tier and negotiate down the price of the car as much as possible since you pay for the delta between the RV calculated from the MSRP and the net cap cost. I never put money down since its not your asset. The jag lease I believe is managed by Chase and pretty sure they include GAP.
I've leased a handful of vehicles. I've also had every dealer try to mark up the MF. It's often called "dealer participation" or some other nonsense. Since they can't change the RV you just need to make sure you are getting the book MF for your credit tier and negotiate down the price of the car as much as possible since you pay for the delta between the RV calculated from the MSRP and the net cap cost. I never put money down since its not your asset. The jag lease I believe is managed by Chase and pretty sure they include GAP.
#30
06-03-2015, 09:47 AM
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Does anyone have current leasing information?
My dealer quoted me 67% residual on the base coupe (which looks good), but what seems like a high MF 0.00246 (= 5.9% APR) and nothing off MSRP for a 2016.
Does anyone have current Money Factor rates from Chase for Jaguar?
My dealer quoted me 67% residual on the base coupe (which looks good), but what seems like a high MF 0.00246 (= 5.9% APR) and nothing off MSRP for a 2016.
Does anyone have current Money Factor rates from Chase for Jaguar?
#31
06-03-2015, 10:25 AM
Also it was awesome not having to deal with the finance dept at the dealership. I literally spent 5 minutes with the finance manger signing some papers and declining all the crap they offer and then handing them my PenFed check.
#32
06-03-2015, 03:12 PM
Veteran Member
How can you possibly lose money on owning a car you enjoy driving? That's like saying you lose money every time you buy food or clothing. Now, if not done properly, you can certainly lose money on financing or leasing a vehicle.
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Flinger (06-08-2015)
#33
06-03-2015, 05:47 PM
yeah, I ended up going with PenFed instead though. I don't consider cars investments and expect to loose money on owning a car I enjoy driving. The PenFed auto saver loan also gives me a lot more options in case I decide to keep the car after 3 years or decide to sell it before then.
Also it was awesome not having to deal with the finance dept at the dealership. I literally spent 5 minutes with the finance manger signing some papers and declining all the crap they offer and then handing them my PenFed check.
Also it was awesome not having to deal with the finance dept at the dealership. I literally spent 5 minutes with the finance manger signing some papers and declining all the crap they offer and then handing them my PenFed check.
but did you at least haggle on the price at all or did you just pay msrp?
#34
06-03-2015, 05:57 PM
Penfed is pretty conservative on their residual value of the car so I highly doubt you would be underwater after 3 years. However if you are planning on taking it to Carmax, well that is a different story. They'll low ball you more than any dealer. Better to just sell it privately at that point. Spend $50 and put it on all the sites, cars.com, autotrader and KBB. Pretty much all you need.
The real only negative to the penfed payment saver loan vs a traditional lease is that you pay sales tax on the full amount with penfed, vs just the monthly lease payment on a lease. If your State has low sales tax or no sales tax then penfed comes out ahead by a lot.
An example: I sold my last car financed through penfed payment saver for $15k over the final balloon payment. I used that money as the down payment on the F-type. The F-type would have to crash over 50% in 3 years to be below penfed's residual price they are listing.
The real only negative to the penfed payment saver loan vs a traditional lease is that you pay sales tax on the full amount with penfed, vs just the monthly lease payment on a lease. If your State has low sales tax or no sales tax then penfed comes out ahead by a lot.
An example: I sold my last car financed through penfed payment saver for $15k over the final balloon payment. I used that money as the down payment on the F-type. The F-type would have to crash over 50% in 3 years to be below penfed's residual price they are listing.
While you are paying for the full sales tax, isn't that included in the penfed as well and if that's amortized over the life the car - you're not technically paying the full amount of taxes . That's the way I read it
Financing available up to 110% of the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) including tags, title, taxes and extended warranties. Some restrictions apply.
also, you mentioned you put down money - why? at 1.72% interest rate , did you really save that much by doing that. Just curious and making sure I understand the cooncept.
#35
06-03-2015, 06:34 PM
REgarding the sales tax. (I live in Florida so 6% sales tax).
While you are paying for the full sales tax, isn't that included in the penfed as well and if that's amortized over the life the car - you're not technically paying the full amount of taxes . That's the way I read it
While you are paying for the full sales tax, isn't that included in the penfed as well and if that's amortized over the life the car - you're not technically paying the full amount of taxes . That's the way I read it
$60 x 36mo = $2160 in taxes
With the penfed payment saver loan, it isn't a lease. You are buying the vehicle and paying for it in full with the loan. So you are being taxed from the get-go on the full amount of the car. A $100k car would be $6k using your 6%. So total loan amount is $106k.
$6k in taxes.
If you keep your lease then yes you would get taxed on the rest where on the penfed loan you have already built it into the loan.
also, you mentioned you put down money - why? at 1.72% interest rate , did you really save that much by doing that. Just curious and making sure I understand the cooncept.
#36
06-03-2015, 07:38 PM
Veteran Member
With a traditional lease, you are only paying sales tax on the amount of your lease payment. So tax on say a $1000 payment would be about $60.
$60 x 36mo = $2160 in taxes
With the penfed payment saver loan, it isn't a lease. You are buying the vehicle and paying for it in full with the loan. So you are being taxed from the get-go on the full amount of the car. A $100k car would be $6k using your 6%. So total loan amount is $106k.
$6k in taxes...
$60 x 36mo = $2160 in taxes
With the penfed payment saver loan, it isn't a lease. You are buying the vehicle and paying for it in full with the loan. So you are being taxed from the get-go on the full amount of the car. A $100k car would be $6k using your 6%. So total loan amount is $106k.
$6k in taxes...
In states with no state income tax (like TX) I can write off my sales tax on my federal taxes. New F-Type, new WRX, mortgage interest, and a few charity donations and my taxable income after deductions might be very low this year!
#37
06-03-2015, 07:48 PM
With a traditional lease, you are only paying sales tax on the amount of your lease payment. So tax on say a $1000 payment would be about $60.
$60 x 36mo = $2160 in taxes
With the penfed payment saver loan, it isn't a lease. You are buying the vehicle and paying for it in full with the loan. So you are being taxed from the get-go on the full amount of the car. A $100k car would be $6k using your 6%. So total loan amount is $106k.
$6k in taxes.
If you keep your lease then yes you would get taxed on the rest where on the penfed loan you have already built it into the loan.
For me, it wasn't about saving as it was reducing gap risk. The Jag is my only car and I never want to be underwater on it. With interest rates so low it probably doesn't make as much a difference had I just saved the money and took a larger monthly payment.
$60 x 36mo = $2160 in taxes
With the penfed payment saver loan, it isn't a lease. You are buying the vehicle and paying for it in full with the loan. So you are being taxed from the get-go on the full amount of the car. A $100k car would be $6k using your 6%. So total loan amount is $106k.
$6k in taxes.
If you keep your lease then yes you would get taxed on the rest where on the penfed loan you have already built it into the loan.
For me, it wasn't about saving as it was reducing gap risk. The Jag is my only car and I never want to be underwater on it. With interest rates so low it probably doesn't make as much a difference had I just saved the money and took a larger monthly payment.
Regarding the tax part, and just correct me if I'm wrong but if i was doing an apples to apples comparison a lease to penfed
1. On a lease: 1,000 a month payment , $60 in taxes per month, and 2160 in taxes over 36 months.
2. On penfed: $100K car, $6,000 in taxes so loan is for $106K. If I only use up to 36 months and assuming residual of 54%, that would make taxes about $90 a month and 3,272.
so I see your point on this, if my equation is correct. You might be on the hook for an additional 1100 in taxes.
either way i see your point, thanks
#38
06-03-2015, 07:51 PM
Of course it only matters for those of us who itemize.
#39
06-03-2015, 09:34 PM
You generally have the choice between deducting state income taxes or state sales taxes you pay, so even in states like CA where we do pay state income tax, you deduct whichever is the higher or the two. For those in states without state taxes, its a no brainer to deduct the sales taxes. Pretty sure I'll be deducting the sales tax on my Jag this next tax season.
Of course it only matters for those of us who itemize.
Of course it only matters for those of us who itemize.
#40
06-04-2015, 05:03 AM
Veteran Member
I've looked at Penfed saver loan. It seems to work well if you intend to make the balloon payment. With interest rates as low as they are, if you were to refinance in 3 years interest rates will not likely be as favorable. Residual value may not be able to cover the cost of taxes if you intend to sell.