Car story…

JAGUAR F TYPE - 2016 RWD AUTOMATIC - 340 HP

Bought this Car in Mid January with 110,000 KM - Put 5000 KM until End of March.

Day 1

Got an oil change using valvoline oil. Drove for 2 days.

Day 3
Drove car and coolant light came on - added coolant to the vehicle.

Day 4
Drove the car - and noticed the check engine light started flashing. Car Started vibrating. I left the car came back - pushed the wiring for spark plugs back in. Seemed normal.


Day 5
Next day drove the car. Turned it on drove for 200 KM back and forth without problems. Got back and then turned car off and then back on after 10 minutes and it started flashing again - this time the check engine light stayed on.

Day 6

Codes noted were random misfire, misfire in cylinder 4 and 5. Took it to mechanic - they replaced the spark plugs. Drove it after - I could feel the car was shaking a little still - drove it and same issue came back right away.

Day 7

Replaced the ignition coils and then the fuel injector. Injectors in both cylinder 4 and 5 were seized. Changed injector in 5. Took 4 days to finally get injector out of cylinder 4, soaked it pin hammer etc and finally got it out. Mechanic said that there was water in the cylinder - and that it was rusted.

Day 8
Drove car - drove a little rough at beginning and then once I floored the pedal - same issue came back car started shaking.

Day 9

Took to Berkshire - they completed a compression test -

Found that -

Cylinder 1 - 70
Cylinder 2,3,6 - 170
Cylinders 4 & 5 - 120

Did a timing chain correlation test - found that timing chain is off timing - needs chains and tensioners - possibility engine.

Codes read
P1315-00 PCM - Persistent Misfire
P0304-00 PCM - Cylinder 4 Misfire

P0305-00 PCM - Cylinder 5 Misfire

P0300-00 PCM - Random Misfire Detected
P0316-00 PCM - Engine Misfire Detected on Startup (1000 REVOLUTIONS)
P0270-11 PCM - Cylinder 4 Injector A Circuit Low - Circuit short to ground

Some additional Codes as
U3006-16 PBM - CircuitCircuit Voltage below threshold Medium Speed CAN communication Bus performance Missing


Was told to replace engine without figuring out truly whats wrong with it... and quoted between 20-40k. I brought the car home for now to figure out my own financing and what next options would be best. I really don't believe finding another engine replacement is the right call without diagnosing this engine in more depth than simply saying "low compression and ticking - better to swap it".

The vehicle is now shaking allot more than before when driven back from the shop. The car is not showing its overheating - but when I opened the Hood after a 15 minute drive it is incredibly hot. When started - allot of white smoke left the exhaust.

Possibilities?



i) “Blown” compression seal between two adjacent cylinders - finding lower compression in Cylinders 4 * 5 - pull off the head and see?
(I push the pedal on this car night and day…)

ii) The car was using coolant - but no leaks - and there was white sweet smelling exhaust coming out the tail pipe - maybe coolant is getting in the combustion chamber - through a crack in the head -

I think this is exactly what my car has.

FROM ANOTHER MECHANIC -......
“A very small crack in the head can cause asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic issues. They can creep up on you in a number of ways. You may find that the car is using coolant, but you never see any leaking underneath. Or you may notice that there’s white sweet-smelling exhaust coming out the tailpipe. This is almost always due to coolant getting into the combustion chamber through a crack in the head. It may abate as the car warms up, the metal expands, and the crack swells shut. I only discovered the cracked head on a 1974 BMW 2002tii I had when I was readying the car for sale and did a compression test. The no. 3 cylinder showed slightly low compression, 120 psi as compared with 160 for the other cylinders. I conducted a leak-down test for that cylinder (setting the piston to top-dead center and pressurizing the cylinder through the spark plug hole) and saw bubbles in the radiator. It’s not uncommon for these heads to develop fine cracks in the small area between the intake and exhaust valves, but when I pulled the head, I didn’t see anything, so I took it to a machine shop for a valve job. When the machinist disassembled the head and hot-tanked it, the crack could be seen. Used 2002 heads are common and reasonably priced, so I replaced it. On a rarer more expensive head, you’d have it welded and pressure checked.

If you can’t find a suspected head crack with a leak-down test and don’t see bubbles in the radiator, you can try one of the products that chemically detect exhaust CO2 in the coolant. has a chamber that you fill with detection fluid and a conical rubber seal that you hold in place over the radiator fill port while the engine’s running and watch to see if the detection fluid changes color.

There is another failure mode, though it’s not nearly as common as those above: It is possible for exhaust gases to escape into the coolant through the head gasket and cause the car to run hot. Elimination of other causes of hot-running, careful compression and leak-down tests, detection of exhaust in the coolant, and having the stones to pull the head and inspect the head gasket even when there’s no fluid mixing are required for diagnosis and repair.”



I think it has to be the second option -

i) The car has a white smoke outside of the exhaust. And the blown air smells sweet.
ii) The cylinder pressure is identical to what is shown here with exception of 2 cylinders
iii) The car is using coolant and is showing no leaks.

iv) car is over heating


Any thoughts on what it could be?

I've taken the car to 2 mechanics - and it will soon be on its way to its third - will likely tow it this time to avoid any issues. Any help or anyone with any insight please feel free to chime in.

CODES FOR CAR

DIAGNOSIS FROM MECHANIC

 

Note - also want to mention battery is draining much quicker - and is showing as low when starting. Had to be charged at shop twice.

 

Even if you've got a head gasket leak affecting cylinders 4 and 5, cylinder 1 has low enough compression that there are clearly problems with both banks. Then there's the valve timing issue. All those together would indicate an engine rebuild but I'm not sure that engine internals are readily available. You might end up with a teardown that can't be rebuilt. I'd start looking for a used engine.

 

I believe the Mechanic made a mistake - the first cylinder should read 170 - that was written incorrectly - Its just Cylinders 4 and 5 With low compression

 

If the engine needs to be cracked open to diagnose, you’re already half way to an engine replacement. With as many issues as you’ve been reciting, you don’t want to chance that a rebuild will actually be successful. Look for factory new or rebuild online. Have it delivered to your local trusted performance shop. 35 to 50% less expensive than a dealer.

 

I’m not a mechanic but have had my own issues with motors. Save yourself money, time , headache and problems down the road. Especially problems down the road . Replace the motor. Find a good Indy shop that will be around awhile and has been around for awhile that offers a decent warranty and replace the motor. Just my opinion based on experience.

 

If there is low compression in a cylinder, it can only be lost from a few things. A bad ring seal/ hole in piston, burnt valve seats or bent valve stems preventing the valve seating properly,, or a leaking head gasket. As has been stated, a crack in the combustion chamber can lead to overheating and coolant loss. The leak down test can help identify the problem . Is it possible that the timing chains have jumped a sprocket tooth? That would cause a lot of problems!
I would recommend the leak down test to determine the actual problem before anything else is done.
I don't know what the replacement parts situation is with these engines, I imagine that most gaskets and seals, including the head gaskets are available. valves and valve train parts? Timing chain and tensioner components? Even more importantly is there a mechanic available that is competent and willing to do the rebuilding?
Yes I know that these are complex engines, but they are just engines. Anyone who has worked on a modern multi cylinder motorcycle engine has worked on something of similar complexity. Yours had maybe 60,000 miles on it before problems. A used engine is a choice, but not a completely safe bet, yours was a good "used" engine until just a few kilometres ago.
If there is no one available that will work on your engine, then I suppose that a replacement might be the only course. Used engines are quite expensive. I find it hard to accept that these expensive engines are considered "disposable" How can Jaguar fans accept that? This is what will keep me from buying a used late model Jag.
Good luck, I hope you can get your motor fixed.

 

They’re not throwaway engines. The core charge for these engines is more than most new crate engines cost. Indies just don’t generally have the specialized tools, specs or parts to do the job. Jag will rebuild the cores.

 

@danielbah, is there evidence the engine was overheated such as dried coolant on the bonnet insulation?

Did the engine overheat when you had the 'Coolant Low' warning on the instrument cluster? How many kilometres did the vehicle go with the instrument cluster warning on?

Has anyone used a borescope to inspect the condition of the piston crowns and valves when the spark plugs were removed?

What was the fuel pressure during the misfire events from the high pressure pumps?

 

I would bet that the engine overheated during the low coolant episode and probably blew the head gasket. It's a 2016 model, I sure hope the car was sold with some type of extended warranty.
I think that it is important that the cause of the engine failure be identified. If it is from overheating than it's important that the entire cooling system be analyzed and repaired. Can you imagine dropping in a factory motor and having the same thing happen a short time later?

 

This sure sounds like a blown head gasket. The sweet exhaust smell is indicative of coolant in the combustion chamber.

Pressure test the cooling system. My bet is that it will not hold pressure and you'll find coolant in 4&5.

If the engine has not overheated, you might get away with a head gasket, but a competent mechanic with JLR experience should be able to guide you to the best solution.

 

Well I would do the following before going any further?

You have no VVT errors? If the chain jumped tooth you would. So where do your timing issues come from? I don't see any in the codes? I have never heard of and don't know what a "Timing chain correlation test" is? Jaguar does NOT use that terminology. You should be getting camshaft timing errors. Either to far advanced or too far retarded on the intake or exhaust cams.

Next have you tested the coolant to see if it contains combustion products? This is a simple dip stick type of test. It should be a simple yes or no from that.

Next rerun the compression test and MAKE SURE they understand that you MUST do this test two times for it to be of value? Once like they did it and then a second time AFTER putting a small amount of engine oil in each cylinder. This last bit is critical.

Note all of the above can be done for not much cost. As you know an engine replacement is a big step so lets just make sure that's the direction you need to go!
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This gentleman has offered some wise comments and suggestions.

 

+1.

 

1) dried coolant was on the bottom of the hood when I opened it last after the last drive back.

2) my temperature showing for the heat- was always in the middle never higher - so I can’t tell. The coolant was low and I filled it within 3 hours. Probably drove it 25-30 kilometres before filling - no leaks

3) no borescope use was done

4) I don’t have the fuel pump pressure - my first mechanic believes it was a high pressure fuel pump

 

No VVT codes - I genuinely believe the first mechanic wanted to do an engine swap just because it was easiest. Barely did a diagnosis for the 500$ I spent there and just said he heard “timing chain wasn’t running properly”

have not tested the coolant - the last time I went to check it after we filled it 2 times - it was super low had to fill the entire tank essentially. And the misfire got allot worse.

We’ve done the compression test twice at two different mechanics and I had the same results - 135 average across and the same numbers for each cylinder - not sure about the oil

 

So based off what I’m hearing - if there was a seized injector and rust in my cylinder from when they pulled it out - that must mean water/coolant had gotten in there - and if I’m losing coolant and there’s no evident leaks it seems like that must be the issue?

If that’s the cause then I can only think of a blown head gasket or crack in the head. If it’s a blown head gasket it would be amazing - cheaper then anything else it seems it could be. But the latter I’m assuming they’d have to rebuild the engine - weld/pressurize it and then put back which may ultimately cost more then the a used engine


My first mechanic believes it can be a high pressure fuel pump - causing the compression to be low in the 2 cylinders.

with this much coolant leaking internally should I be concerned of other areas aside from main motor that the car may have issues with? My biggest fear is then replacing the engine as the last call and the issues arise again

 

If the head gasket is blown but the compression is low on either side does that mean both may be blown? Or potentially 1 is blown and it’s mixing into the other ?

 

The reason for doing a dry and a wet compression test is to help isolate what is causing the compression result differences between the cylinders. If the wet test yields higher compression numbers on the low compression cylinders that would indicate probable excessive ring wear or a ring sealing problem is causing the issue. If no change the compression leak is probably somewhere else (valves, head gasket, etc.)

The coolant test checks for combustion byproducts in the coolant. If they are there it could indicate a blown head gasket, or other path between cooling jacket and combustion chambers.

 

Seized injectors are unfortunately a VERY common problem so I would not use that as an indication of anything being wrong. Jaguar has a slide hammer tool to remove these and we have been told several hours and hundreds of slide hammer hits are sometimes required to get an injector to come loose. Glad you finally DID get them out! At least you dodged that bullet!

The high and low pressure fuel pumps have nothing to do with the compression readings of the engine? Maybe a misunderstanding here? I mean if the mechanic did say that I would be moving on to another mechanic as he does not have a very good understanding of how engines work? And again these types of problems ALL set codes that you don't have?

If no VVT errors you still could have worn tensioners. Turn the radio off and keep the drivers door open. Listen very carefully when you start the engine from a cold soak overnight. I have never seen an engine with tensioner or chain problems that did NOT make noise upon startup. Same with engine shut down as that is a good way to find a bad SC snout. Note the SC snout is pretty much like the water pump. You can almost count on it needing to be replaced. There are a number of videos with both noises on them which will help you identify what your hearing.

Sorry but I do not see that you have done a coolant pressure test when the engine was cold? It was suggested at least once by another poster?

With misfires you should have some codes? Have you erased all codes and let them set again? Might tell us something?
Keep at it every bit of info you post back does help. We are all just guessing on the internet!
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