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Not Happy with Clutch Feel?

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  #61  
Old 02-01-2016, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bret_T
I have an idea for your next project. How about figuring out a way to make more space to the left of the clutch?
I have a 3 pound mallet that would be perfect for that job.
 
  #62  
Old 02-01-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Foosh
I had the same question, and does that now void the clutch warranty because of extra wear and tear on the clutch?
The elimination of a device designed to allow clutch slippage will actually extend the life of the clutch. However, the probability of drivetrain failure increases in the event of an improper shift (popped clutch). One would think, the drive train on a performance car should be designed well enough to withstand aggressive shifting. Maybe a bad assumption to make.
 
  #63  
Old 02-01-2016, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
The elimination of a device designed to allow clutch slippage will actually extend the life of the clutch. However, the probability of drivetrain failure increases in the event of an improper shift (popped clutch). One would think, the drive train on a performance car should be designed well enough to withstand aggressive shifting. Maybe a bad assumption to make.
The patent (see post #17 of this thread) is by Ford. It contains the following:
"A second problem arises in that rapid clutch engagement on pull-away, engine bump start or bad gear changing, result in excessive stresses on transmission, driveline and suspension components. These can therefore be made cheaper and lighter if this effect can be reduced."
I'm not sure about the transmission itself, but expect the rest of the driveline is fairly robust. It's the same as the V8, isn't it? The u-joints, axles, etc. can handle the monstrous V8 torque.
 
  #64  
Old 02-01-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
The elimination of a device designed to allow clutch slippage will actually extend the life of the clutch. However, the probability of drivetrain failure increases in the event of an improper shift (popped clutch). One would think, the drive train on a performance car should be designed well enough to withstand aggressive shifting. Maybe a bad assumption to make.
Without disassembling (aka destroying) the factory part, it's difficult to know, but it may be there are 2 parts to it, a delaying piston, and an orifice of a certain size. By eliminating the piston function, you may now be getting behaviour due solely to the orifice, which may be small enough to still allow slippage(?) (or is it now free flowing, and therefore no orifice?)
 

Last edited by mshedden; 02-01-2016 at 11:34 AM.
  #65  
Old 02-01-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mshedden
Without disassembling (aka destroying) the factory part, it's difficult to know, but it may be there are 2 parts to it, a delaying piston, and an orifice of a certain size. By eliminating the piston function, you may now be getting behaviour due solely to the orifice, which may be small enough to still allow slippage(?) (or is it now free flowing, and therefore no orifice?)
In preparing for this mod, I had ordered a CDV to determine the fix. On the test unit, the piston is still free to move in both directions, but now has a no.30 hole in the top of it (about the same size as the inlet and outlet ports of the CDV). Air now flows throw the CDV as easily in either direction where it was previously heavily restricted in the reverse direction. I believe originally the piston had a very small orifice in it whereas it now has the same size restriction (in both directions), as the rest of the valve body.
 
  #66  
Old 02-19-2016, 09:19 AM
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There's been a parallel discussion on the C30 forum that took an interesting turn recently. One of the members there took a different approach:

C30 Crew Forum
 
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  #67  
Old 02-19-2016, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lizzardo
There's been a parallel discussion on the C30 forum that took an interesting turn recently. One of the members there took a different approach:

C30 Crew Forum
Perhaps you could give us the Cliff Notes version. The link you posted requires one to register and log in to view posts, and the last thing I need to to be registered on another car forum.
 
  #68  
Old 02-19-2016, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Foosh
Perhaps you could give us the Cliff Notes version. The link you posted requires one to register and log in to view posts, and the last thing I need to to be registered on another car forum.
Oops. Sorry about that. I didn't realize registration was required.

The technique involves removal of the piston entirely. The piston is held in place by a pressed-in ring. The removal process is to screw a coarse thread screw (think lag screw or wood screw) into the center hole in the piston and pull. This pulls the retaining ring out too. I'll see if I can get a link to the pictures, but that'll have to be later. I need to leave for work now.
 
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  #69  
Old 02-19-2016, 12:16 PM
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Brilliant solution. Much simpler than mine. I may go back in and finish the job right.
 
  #70  
Old 02-27-2016, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Brilliant solution. Much simpler than mine. I may go back in and finish the job right.
Any follow-up comments, either on how you're feeling about the initial modification or whether you have gone back and tried this alternate approach?
 
  #71  
Old 02-27-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lizzardo
Any follow-up comments, either on how you're feeling about the initial modification or whether you have gone back and tried this alternate approach?
Since I already drilled out the valve, there's no urgency at this time to go back and finish it up right. However, I did test this method on my test valve and it worked well. Since this method ensures full unrestricted flow, I will follow up with it.
Clutching now has a more direct feel and allows faster shifting, but the clutch still won't engage on upshifts unless you allow it to fully hook up before you get back on the throttle. (very frustrating). I am still in discussions with Clutchmasters to build us a clutch and have also opened discussions with Spec Clutch based on a recommendation by Jaron.
 
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  #72  
Old 03-01-2016, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
I am still in discussions with Clutchmasters to build us a clutch and have also opened discussions with Spec Clutch based on a recommendation by Jaron.
Man... every one of your posts is A+. Like a painting. =)
 
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  #73  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:55 PM
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We've hit a bit of a snag on the performance clutch design. Either of the manufacturers require an OEM clutch kit, throw-out bearing and flywheel to design the new clutch. As of this time, Jag has the flywheel on back order with expected delivery not until July.

At this time, Spec seems to be the best choice for this task (thanks, Jaron):

 

Last edited by Unhingd; 03-02-2016 at 02:01 PM.
  #74  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:23 PM
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No problem
 
  #75  
Old 03-03-2016, 12:45 PM
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New clutch kit getting made the week of March 14. Price will come at or under $500.
 
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  #76  
Old 03-11-2016, 01:16 PM
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That's what I want to hear
 
  #77  
Old 03-11-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
New clutch kit getting made the week of March 14. Price will come at or under $500.
From SPEC? What about a Flywheel?
 
  #78  
Old 03-11-2016, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Atomic
From SPEC? What about a Flywheel?
This project is temporarily on hold to see if the updated JLR flywheel and clutch kit resolve the shortcomings (at no cost to me). Unfortunately, these parts are on back order and I won't hear back from JLR customer service until Monday about when these parts might be available (could take months).
If the updated parts do not resolve the issue, I will restart the Spec project. To design the high performance clutch, they will need from me the OEM flywheel, clutch set and throw-out slave. If during that process they suggest building a lightweight flywheel for me, I would certainly consider it.
 
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  #79  
Old 03-11-2016, 04:00 PM
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Just go with the spec and get it over with!
The way you drive it's worth it
 
  #80  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:40 AM
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Redesigned part might end up being comparable or better than after-market. Plus, you can't beat 'free' price.
 


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