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True. No real frustration. Just a nagging concern that they didn't put as much testing into this unit as they should have, or didn't train the assembly technicians adequately for the first run of MT cars. This may be an issue with the goofy dual mass clutch. This car should have had a standard clutch and lightweight flywheel from the start.
Jag tech advisor has told shop to drop tranny to see what's going on. Problem: shop has no service manual to show how to drop, and topix just shows a parts explosion. Parts will have to come from the UK. This will be a lengthy ordeal.
Since you keep cars forever, and thinking on on the bright side, perhaps you can "negotiate" an extended warranty in consideration of your considerable inconvenience and disappointment with a brand new model of a brand new car.
I think it's also only fair that they give you an F-Type to drive because it is likely is take a long time.
Since you keep cars forever, and thinking on on the bright side, perhaps you can "negotiate" an extended warranty in consideration of your considerable inconvenience and disappointment with a brand new model of a brand new car.
I think it's also only fair that they give you an F-Type to drive because it is likely is take a long time.
Good point. I'll hold onto the XF until next week. Since they certainly won't have a demo 6 speed, I'll just have to settle for an R.
A modicum of good news: the 6 speed service instructions were posted to Topix yesterday, so the service department has at least some kind of roadmap by which to proceed. They are now guessing it's the slave cylinder, but haven't found it yet. They thought it might be mounted inside the bell housing (stupid, stupid, stupid if true).
Slave cylinder? I would imagine it has a hydraulic throw-out bearing, which is all inside the bell housing, and eliminates the external slave cylinder. Slave and fork to move a clutch is very old school, but it was simple to fix. I'd guess all modern manuals now require a trannie drop.
Slave cylinder? I would imagine it has a hydraulic throw-out bearing, which is all inside the bell housing, and eliminates the external slave cylinder.
All too probable (but it's still the slave side of the hydraulic system). And still:stupid, stupid, stupid. These units fail frequently and this more than doubles the need to remove the transmission for regular servicing (as demonstrated). Perhaps Jag will redeem itself if the unit can be serviced via an access port, but I suspect the splined transmission shaft has to be extracted from the clutch unit to replace the throwout unit.
All too probable (but it's still the slave side of the hydraulic system). And still:stupid, stupid, stupid. These units fail frequently and this more than doubles the need to remove the transmission for regular servicing (as demonstrated). Perhaps Jag will redeem itself if the unit can be serviced via an access port, but I suspect the splined transmission shaft has to be extracted from the clutch unit to replace the throwout unit.
They shouldn't fail frequently if designed and installed properly. They were bullet proof in all C6 of models if not abused badly, and that car had the transmission mounted just in front of the rear wheels to get a 50/50 weight balance.
They shouldn't fail frequently if designed and installed properly. They were bullet proof in all C6 of models if not abused badly, and that car had the transmission mounted just in front of the rear wheels to get a 50/50 weight balance.
A bit of research on various forums shows these CSCs (concentric slave cylinders) to be problematic. In fact, ZF recommends replacing them every time the transmission is pulled for whatever reason. SACHS | Installation central release mechanism
This does not inspire confidence. The slave blows out on any of my other vehicles, its a 10 minute fixit. Hydraulic seals rupture frequently. You have to be able to get at them easily.
I don't know about the ZF, but it wasn't a problem on the Tremec.
I don't doubt it. The Tremec tranny is much beefier all around. If Jag had teamed up with Tremec instead of ZF, we might have had a 6 speed available on the R.
Jag Tech finally got the service documentation for the MT to the dealer. Tranny removed. Not the throw-out slave. They found a literal parts explosion for the clutch plate release assembly.
Clutch, disc, flywheel plate and concentric throw-out slave will all be replaced.
Wowzers. Thats not good. JLR will have to consider upgrading the components before re-assembling your car, otherwise it'll happen again.
They're very unlikely to do that without initiating a recall for all the MTs released to dated. There's no reason to believe that I'm any harder on a clutch than most folks buying this kind of car. This is the first clutch that hasn't lasted me at least 30,000 miles, and that one failed that soon simply because I was towing a 4500 lb racing rig (car, spares, tools, trailer), If these units are under-designed, we'll know soon enough. Others are coming up on 1000 miles fairly shortly. My biggest peeve is that there are no spares in the U.S., and in the U.K. they all show as "new part - not yet inventoried".
How can you sell a car before spare parts are available?
They're very unlikely to do that without initiating a recall for all the MTs released to dated. There's no reason to believe that I'm any harder on a clutch than most folks buying this kind of car. This is the first clutch that hasn't lasted me at least 30,000 miles, and that one failed that soon simply because I was towing a 4500 lb racing rig (car, spares, tools, trailer), If these units are under-designed, we'll know soon enough. Others are coming up on 1000 miles fairly shortly. My biggest peeve is that there are no spares in the U.S., and in the U.K. they all show as "new part - not yet inventoried".
How can you sell a car before spare parts are available?
Unless, it is just a fluke casting defect of that part, I agree it's quite likely to happen to other cars, which is too bad. Thinking positively, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to get a limited production run of bad parts all manufactured during fairly short period of time. Hopefully, JLR or ZF traces it back to that root cause at the supplier.
Having spent 37 years in the aerospace industry as a safety guy/accident investigator, what we usually see is that parts generally fail either when they are new or when they are old and worn out. Those who make it to 10K miles are probably going to be good for a long period of time.
They're very unlikely to do that without initiating a recall for all the MTs released to dated. There's no reason to believe that I'm any harder on a clutch than most folks buying this kind of car. This is the first clutch that hasn't lasted me at least 30,000 miles, and that one failed that soon simply because I was towing a 4500 lb racing rig (car, spares, tools, trailer), If these units are under-designed, we'll know soon enough. Others are coming up on 1000 miles fairly shortly. My biggest peeve is that there are no spares in the U.S., and in the U.K. they all show as "new part - not yet inventoried".
How can you sell a car before spare parts are available?
I had that as well in 2013 when I had a faulty cruise control switch. Took 1.5 months to sort out - and I live in the UK 70 miles from the factory. Meanwhile, they were delivering free cars to famous football managers and footballers which sent me crazy! All I wanted was a switch for a steering wheel.
Unless, it is just a fluke casting defect of that part, I agree it's quite likely to happen to other cars, which is too bad. Thinking positively, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to get a limited production run of bad parts all manufactured during fairly short period of time. Hopefully, JLR or ZF traces it back to that root cause at the supplier.
Having spent 37 years in the aerospace industry as a safety guy/accident investigator, what we usually see is that parts generally fail either when they are new or when they are old and worn out. Those who make it to 10K miles are probably going to be good for a long period of time.
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That is why analytics is so strong today and strengthening even more in the future. "Predictive Analytics" on spares, parts etc., and replacing them based upon this prior to having to go to recalls, or absolute failures. Saves a lot of money, time, headaches and "BRAND EROSION"!
07-26-2015, 08:27 AM
