Hi Stephen,

Despite pressing JLR quite aggressively, there being prominent press coverage on this specific design problem and this being the most highly trafficked subject on the forum, Jaguar's CRC continue to insist that they've received very few reports of the audio issue - even up to last Friday. This is either completely unbelievable or their systems don't allow them to join the dots.

They persist in asking us all to go to dealerships to apply ad-hoc fixes that none of which are proven to fix the problem. Dealers are equally frustrated with their experience with JLR on this.

This problem is known to Jaguar for 20 months now and even after this time they have not issued a TSB or even investigated their own vehicles that display the problem.

Jaguar's response to this has been appalling and not what any of us would expect from any responsible auto manufacturer. We are on our own is my final conclusion. Its a lesson learned for me and the last JLR product I will ever purchase.

Mark

 

Hi Stephen:
Type in the search bar, Meridian audio, and there are tons of posts on this topic. All that you describe is the reason that I am meeting the NA audio engineer one week from Monday. Dynomat didn't do it, and your description is perfect!!! Will let you know what they say.

Thanks,
Joe

 

Mark,
If Jaguar fails to repair the audio system after I have provided them a reasonable opportunity to do so, they will be in breach of warranty.

Given the price of this vehicle and the cost to obtain the upgraded Meridian system I intend to ensure that Jaguar lives up to its obligations. I am a commercial litigation lawyer and will not hesitate to commence an action if necessary. Perhaps a class action lawsuit would get their attention? I will give then a couple of more opportunities to fix this properly and see how they perform.

To those of you who are experiencing this problem I would recommend that you notify your Jaguar dealership and Jaguar Customer Service of the history of your problem, the number of attempts to repair it, the current status of the problem and your dissatisfaction with the repair process and results to date. This should be done in writing - email or fax. Post a copy of your correspondence in this thread so that we can all see how many written reports have been submitted to Jaguar.
Stephen

 

Count me in on any legal engagement. I will promise you now that Jaguar at not taking this seriously based on my conversations with the lady at the Executive office. As I've recently said, in our conversation she specifically said two things "We have not received sufficient complaints to investigate this." And, secondly "We cannot find our own PR vehicle from Autocar Magazine to investigate this for you."

The dealership will do everything they can by stuffing your doors with tape, foam and tighten what they can.

In my mind, enough is enough.

In order that I can take this legal I am giving my local dealership a 5th opportunity within the next week to fix this and remove all the crap they've stuffed my door with.

 

Stephen, I have been corresponding with JLR for >2 months now, and to date the stereo hasn't been fixed. I get excited that they are doing something for me, then get a note that the "engineers" have stated that the stereo is performing as designed. Total crap! They couldn't render an opinion without listening to it.

I am taking it in one week from Monday, and the confirmation for a meeting with the engineer to give it a listen, hear with his/her own ears the resounding buzz, rattling, and lack of much coming out of the rear speakers. I don't have high hopes, but with the dynomat in the doors, replacement of the rear speaker cover that was cracked etc., enough is enough.

The lady from executive offices has all of the information, and when we spoke to set this up, she passed on an additional request from the UK engineers. This was "what base setting do you have this on". I couldn't get the words out of my mouth fast enough, and she echoed exactly what I was about to say. A rattle is a rattle, and despite the settings/volume/type of music, the cab should be designed to handle this properly. BTW the volume is between 30/35 and the settings for base is about 60%, Treble 80% and sub doesn't matter because it is a "TOY"!

If this does not fix it for me on this go around, count me in. I for one feel that this is a basic part of the car, an exotic, and although some like to solely listen to the engine, I like to listen to both, and expect beauty and performance as such.

Will advise soon!

 

Respectfully, I would suggest this is probably not a good idea. If you do proceed as a member of a class-action lawsuit, it wouldn't be a good idea to tell a Jaguar dealership to "un-do" an attempted repair. That could work against you.

 

It is heartening that this community is banding together to resolve this issue. Keep in mind, however, that of the 4 that have expressed interest in legal action, they are located in 3 different national jurisdictions (US,UK,CD). You may need to take actions against different legal entities that are legally responsible for selling the car to you (the Jaguar Sales Company USA, Canada, and UK). The US and Canadian claims might be actionable against the parent company (JLR NA) , but depending on where action is taken, either the Canadian owners or the US owners may not have standing. Stengli should be able to clear up the concern as to whether US owners can join a class action suit in Canada where Stengli is licensed to practice.

 

Since I am located in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and my bill of sale is with Jaguar-Landrover Canada, any court action that I might bring would be in Canada against JL Canada. The Canadian courts would not have jurisdiction to try cases involving US or UK owners.

There have only been 815 F-Types sold in Canada vs 7,700 in the US. I don't have a sense of what percentage of F-types have the audio defect, but even at 50%, I doubt that many Canadian class action lawyers would be interested in taking the case on. However, I have a good friend who is a class action lawyer and I know that he would partner up with me on a claim like this just for the fun of it.

I am surprised that a class action has not been commenced in the US, as the sales figures there would imply a potential claim in the several millions of dollars. Perhaps the US warranties contain mandatory arbitration clauses that preclude litigation? I know that a few years back there were some US Federal Court cases involving Porsche that dealt with the enforceability of such clauses, but I don't know how the issue was ultimately resolved.

I look forward to hearing how you meeting with the engineer turns out.

Stephen

 

It's heartening that you guys want to try a lawsuit against Jaguar...but for those of you that are lawyers..it seems like you would not have any case. Simply, the meridian system sounded like crap when we bough our cars. You bought the bad sound system. Probably, like me, when you were test driving the car, you were not really paying attention to the stereo, or like me, you actually fiddled with it quickly and just assumed that once you got the car home you would find better settings. The problems with the vibrations are annoying, but the real inherent problem is a poor overall system. While a lawsuit might get the vibrations fixed, i'm not sure how you can sue for a weak design, as we had the choice to buy it or not. Don;t get me wrong, i totally agree that the system is bad, but i doubt that other then fix the vibrations in the doors, Jaguar would ever admit that the system is just poor. And they certainly are not going to upgrade it.

 

It's very complicated, and there is likely no clear answer. National laws pertaining to class-actions lawsuits are complex and various countries apply different rules, as to whether foreign nationals can join a class.

In the U.S., the purpose of a class action lawsuit is to settle an issue once and for all in a single lawsuit, avoiding 100s if not 1000s of individual suits, and to not allow a "second-bite" lawsuit in another court or country if certain class members did not like the outcome. A U.S. court would consider that to be unfair to the defendant.

For example, if a suit was filed in the U.S., when considering whether foreign nationals could be certified as class members, a U.S. court could decide it would be unfair if the home country of a potential class member allowed "second bites." In such a case, a court could decide not to certify certain foreign nationals.

The issue would be likely be settled by the laws of the country where the first lawsuit was filed, and in this case, it sounds like it would be Canada.

http://www.kattenlaw.com/files/22018...assActions.pdf

 

Folks, don't get me wrong. I am by far not a "Sue Happy American", and don't think that I would change my opinion on this ever!

I am working with JLR and believe that we can resolve this issue. We are on track (I believe) to doing so. However, I will stop at no end to get it resolved just for hobby! I never took an individual, and to this point, will never be taken. If there is an issue with the system (which there is), I will seek resolution to the end, no matter what.

I don't want you to think for one second that "legal" is the route I would take, as I believe as a business man, resolution is through communications, and relentless follow up, no matter the response!

Thanks, and think from this perspective. If you had something that wasn't working as advertised, a coffee maker that didn't brew hot enough, or a hose that leaked, you would take it back in a heartbeat. However, having a car that has a sound system that is like a "vibrating piece of aluminum" (Pun intended), what makes that any different...."NOTHING"!

Thanks for the support, and before you post anything, think about the fact if anything you had in your car wasn't working right, would you fight hard for it. if the answer is no, then shame on you for being run over....never where I come from would this be allowed to happen. However, lawsuits are not the answer, but relentless pursuit of what is just is!

Thanks, and another persons opinion, and hopefully JLR is working this out with me. I like the lady I am dealing with and she seems to get it now. It is UK engineering that is the question mark, asking what settings the base is on. Give me a break!!!

 

It's "bass," when referring to lower musical octaves not "base."

Sorry, just trying to help with your musical vocabulary.

 

Thanks, and how well I know this having played since I am 4. This is what happens when typing on the fly! :-)! Remember, it's all about the bass, bout the bass bout the bass!!!!!

 

Yes, when it comes to problems with F-Type audio systems, it does seem to be, "all about the bass, 'bout the bass . . ."

 

Whew, thanks Foosh. I'm glad it is not about the Base, because that is what I ordered.

 

Me too and very happy with both the base and the bass.

 

At the outset, I don't want anyone to think that I am "sue happy", I do not expect perfection in everything, but I do expect people that I do business with to live up to their promises and I am prepared to provide them with a reasonable opportunity to do so. However if at some point it becomes clear to me that they will not or can not live up to their obligations then one has to consider the option of litigation.

While I consider that my Meridian system is defective, I do not consider that it is inherently a "bad" system. What I have heard when the system is not vibrating or buzzing, even without the rear subs playing, is impressive for car audio in my opinion and I expect better sound quality once the rear subs are replaced.

While I would not describe myself as an audiophile, I do have a fairly high end home stereo system which includes a digital music server outputting "bit perfect" sound to an outboard DAC, so I do have a frame of reference for decent sound quality. Some of the complaints about general poor sound quality in the Meridian system may be due to the quality of the input source. Bluetooth has inherent limitations for the transmission of music and the low quality of MP3 files or low bit rate Apple iTunes files are likely to be emphasized by a high powered system such as the upgraded Meridian system.

Back to the warranty issue-

"Jaguar's warrants that...repairs required to correct defects in factory supplied materials or factory workmanship will be performed without charge..."

Note that Jaguar does not warrant that the vehicle is free from defects, only that they will be repaired without charge.

We can debate at which point a lack of quality becomes a defect, but in the case of the Meridian speaker system the defects I am experiencing are obvious: Dead door speaker's requiring replacement, Dead rear subs requiring replacement and a buzzing noise or distortion at certain frequencies.

The buzzing or distortion may be caused by defective speakers, a defect in the the audio electronics, defective door panels that are not sufficiently "stiff" to withstand resonating, defective installation of the speakers etc....

My dealer has effectively acknowledged all of these defects - the service record reveals that the tech has in most cases replicated the problem and has attempted to repair or has ordered replacement parts, all without cost to me.

The only question in this situation is "at what point can it be said that Jaguar has breached its warranty by failing to repair the defect?". There is no certain answer to this question, it is a matter of reasonableness. Obviously there is no cause of action if you don't provide Jaguar with the opportunity to repair. On the other side of the equation, you would not be expected to be required to take you car in for the repair of the same defect 25 times before taking the position that Jaguar was in breach of warranty.

In my situation, I have taken the vehicle in for repair twice.

On the first occasion I reported buzzing and vibration in the right door speaker and poor sound from the left door. The tech found the left door speaker not working, it was replaced. The tech found buzzing in the right door speaker and checked the installation, tightened a few screws and proclaimed the problem fixed.

On the second occasion, I reported buzzing and vibration in both door speakers and lack of sound from the rear speakers. Rear subs were tested and found to be not operating - replacements are on order. The tech also confirmed the report of buzzing/vibration in the right door speaker, applied a "fix" and reported that the problem was resolved. There is no report of what if anything was done regarding the left door speaker.

Presently, I still have buzzing and vibration in both door speakers. The rears are still defective, awaiting arrival of the new subs.

At this point it would be premature to fire up a lawsuit claiming breach of warranty. I would suggest that, depending on the nature of the problem, it would be reasonable to allow the dealer say, 3 or 4 attempts to fix any one problem before escalating the matter to Jaguar Canada. At that point, if the defects still exist and if Jaguar Canada indicates they consider there is no problem or that there is nothing more that can be done then you have a breach of warranty.

A few pointers for those of you who are considering litigation:

First, consider whether arbitration may be available to you and whether it might be preferable to a law suit. In Canada, Jaguar participates in the Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP). I would expect that similar programs exist in the UK and the US. CAMVAP is an industry created body, so I would expect it to be "manufacturer friendly".

Second, ensure that your communications with your dealer regarding the defects are documented. Ensure that the service department properly documents the nature of the defect on the work order in specific language that precisely defines the defect. ( "Check audio" is not a sufficient description.) Review the work order and ensure that any vagueness in the language is corrected before you sign it.

Follow up in writing with the service department if the problem is not resolved. In my case after the first attempt to repair the defect, I emailed my service representative confirming the reason for my first visit and pointing out that the problem had not been resolved completely. After my second visit, I emailed again, pointing out that the buzzing/vibration still existed and advised that I expected the problem to be properly repaired when the vehicle is in for replacement of the rear subs.

If the defect is not repaired on my next visit, I will escalate the issue as suggesting in the Jaguar warranty - "Discuss concern with Service Manager and if necessary the owner or General Manager of the dealership" (Once again, such discussion should made or confirmed in writing - a simple email will suffice).

The next level of escalation will be to Jaguar Customer Service. Once again in writing, including the information requested in the warranty book along with details and copies of relevant portions of work orders.

If Jaguar is unable to resolve the problem at that point then litigation becomes into play. But before proceeding that route, I would provide Jaguar with one last chance to repair the problem before taking the car to a high end car audio shop for proper diagnosis and repair of the problem, alternatively I would offer to accept a refund of the extra price paid for the "upgraded" Meridian system.

I had considered perhaps parking my car outside the dealership with a large sign warning prospective customers about the shabby audio system and the fact that Jaguar is not honouring its warranty. However, that would impact the dealer which I think is inappropriate because I sense that this is Jagaur's problem not the dealer's.

In reading a number of posts on this topic, I get the impression that most of the communication with the dealers and with Jaguar is oral and is not confirmed in writing. This provides a poor foundation upon which to escalate the matter to Jaguar, to arbitration or to the court if that is the ultimate direction that is taken.

Stephen.
2014 F-Type V8s Convertible
Italian Racing Red, all options.

 

I have extensive correspondence (19 emails) between myself and JLR UK dating back to 21st January 2014 with Subash Kalair in the CRC, Pete and Ryan of the Social Media team in the CRC and with Mindy Sidhu from the Executive office.

My case is also fully recorded on the CRC system from November 2013.

My car has been into 2 separate dealerships over a total of 4 occasions and 4 weeks.

Jaguar also read press coverage of the issue in Autocar magazine - the UK's biggest published automative magazine - in both March 2015 and May 2015.

And Jaguar will also need to admit to following these forums and have admitted knowing in response to my email that this is the most highly trafficked subject on the F-Type.

However, they also said that they do not take into account viewing data as any form of meaningful data for analysis. They must be the only Social team on the planet that would admit to something so counter to having real customer insight. Seems amazing to me that Pharmaceutical companies in the US base their production runs for cold remedies now on social data and a car company would ignore insight of this nature for safety and/or warranty insight. How backwards...

I've also made in excess of 18 hours of calls with JLR CRC.

 

You have the patience of Job, I do not intend to attempt to convince Jaguar that there are a large number of people experience the same problem as me. The question as to whether or not they repair the defect in accordance with their warranty is fairly straight forward and the experience of others is not relevant to the determination of that question.
Stephen

 

OK - my car is booked in with the dealership for tomorrow morning. Dealer Service manager playing cagey with me, likely because JLR have told them "nightmare customer." LOL.

Apparently JLR are deploying new systems that are delaying responses from Tech Support - so could be Friday night before I can update you all.

Lets see where we get to. JLR will have run out of excuses after 5 attempts.

This must be costing them a fortune in time and lost customers already. Had they dealt with this properly...