oil
#41
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL
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scottjr1 (08-06-2020)
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scottjr1 (08-06-2020)
#43
See... this is what i'm saying about people just spouting opinions as facts. What evidence do you have that chain wear issues have anything to do with direct injection? Because they're completely independent of eachother. There are vehicles out there with port injection that have chain wear issues too... And sludge has been an issue in poorly maintained/worn engines for decades. This isn't new to direct injection. Now carbon buildup in the intake runners is a direct injection only issue and should have been your example...
#45
#47
Castrol recommends
Castrol 06244 EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 (European Formula)
which you can currently buy on Amazon for $42.43 (after 20% discount) for 6 quarts. Castrol also recommends that, as an alternative, you can use the same oil in a 0W-40 weight, which Amazon sells in a 5-quart jug for $22.38.
#48
I would suggest Castrol to keep it as close to OEM as possible, but Mobil1 works just as well.
As long as you can prove you used comparable product, it will not set up any red flags.
#49
I bought my oil and filter from this website who shipped it to my house in 3 days:
https://www.carid.com/
https://www.carid.com/
#50
Start your reading here:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01679X15000432
https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2019-01-0301/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01679X14002370
Also, here is accessible summary:
MOTOR Magazine | eNewsletter | November 22, 2016 | Minimizing Timing Chain Wear
You mentioned that you are an automotive engineer, yet you don't know this. So what do you design exactly?
How do you largely mitigate both of these issues? Half your oil change interval and use quality spec oil. My understanding of titanium additive is that it is modern equivalent of zinc.
Last edited by SinF; 08-06-2020 at 01:52 PM.
#51
Not all engine oils are created equal. Spec oil has additives, as shown by oil analysis, that not every generic oil would have. These additives matter, as you have direct injection engine that is prone to chain wear and sludge on intake. Using substandard oil on a standard oil change interval would result in these issues manifesting in your engine.
Additives matter a great deal. As someone with a number of classic cars with flat tappet cams, if I ever not use correct oil (or zinc additive) I would have flat cams in a hurry. Jaguar engine is just like that, but with different additives/issues.
Personally, I use JLR spec oil and change it twice a year or every 6000 km. Why? Because oil change is cheaper than engine out rebuild around 2025. I am paying forward (to myself).
Additives matter a great deal. As someone with a number of classic cars with flat tappet cams, if I ever not use correct oil (or zinc additive) I would have flat cams in a hurry. Jaguar engine is just like that, but with different additives/issues.
Personally, I use JLR spec oil and change it twice a year or every 6000 km. Why? Because oil change is cheaper than engine out rebuild around 2025. I am paying forward (to myself).
Thank you! I have said it time and time again, there is absolutely no cost savings going cheap on maintenance for the long haul. I have examples hanging on my shop wall of what happens when you go to the "We Be Lubes and Sh*t" type places and DIY on the cheap! At double or even triple the cost for a proper lube, oil and filter change and inspection vs cheapo, you will "NEVER" save enough money to pay for a major repair caused by being cheap!
I must add though that it pays to check with the manufacturer for recommendation changes. As engines evolve and real world driving adds up verses the engineering testing that took place before the vehicle was built so do the requirements and recommendations. Today's GDI and Homogeneous engines are very picky and being cheap even only once can lead to a huge repair bill.
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SinF (08-06-2020)
#53
How do you largely mitigate both of these issues? Half your oil change interval and use quality spec oil. My understanding of titanium additive is that it is modern equivalent of zinc.
#54
#55
This answer is generic to all engines, all manufacturers of those engines(OEM), the component manufacturers (pistons, rings, timing components, etc) and those companies who spend time doing failure analysis. Over time the original manufacturer (OEM) of the engine may issue updated requirements/specs based on observations from the above outside sources and their own observations. OEM Oil recommendation changes over the last 10 years have been on an upswing with the increased demands of new types of components and materials used and the way they are being used. Also the life expectancy of $$$ emission components has become a bigger factor as many are one year and some times only part of a year in use before being replaced with a new yet not backwards compatible design. Some of these emission components are affected by the byproducts of the oil used. A certain OEM I know of has a problem with catalysts. They found that it was being caused by owners changing the oil too often so have mandated that oil should never be changed before the recommended time or mileage. Also they have mandated that a specific oil be used that does less damage to the catalyst and yet meets their requirements for making sure the vehicle survives the warranty period. Here is the problem, since the oil changes are fewer and the other problems that crop up when they are extended the OEM's in conjunction with the oil companies and the API are working together to make new oils that not only address these issues but also will meet the new Gov. pollution and emission mandates that are being implemented on motor oils and their additives.
I know engine oil discussions have always been a contentious and heavily debated topic but demands, requirements, reliability, and emission mandates have made each and every aspect of today's engine the responsibility of the OEM and they are trying their best to make sure we will have a vehicle from them in the future
If you want some deep reading on the latest in engine oil certifications and requirements I suggest you go to the API website -
https://www.api.org/products-and-ser...oil-categories
API and ILSAC New Oil Certifications
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SinF (08-06-2020)
#56
You are also unjustifiably dismissive of DI issues that showed up universally across most makes and models. Sludge and DI are synonymous in any used car, just talk to any mechanic in any garage. Whatever your colleagues that are designing engines are doing, they are doing quite a poor job across the board getting DI to work reliably. Failed pumps, failed injectors, sludge, buildup, chain wear... and all of that for measly 1-2% fuel efficiency gain? Especially at BMW, that hasn't released a reliable engine since M30. 20K oil change intervals and they ALL developed sludge issues right out of warranty. Wallnut blasting machine is a mandatory equipment for any BMW shop these days. I get it, EPA mandates, but that excuse goes only that far. Engineers had now almost 10 years to sort it all out and it still hugely problematic. To the point that chemists had to pick up slack and develop oils to solve engine design flaws. Yes, these additives are necessary because designs are bad. I think only Mazda is doing anywhere near what I would consider a decent job, too bad I am too tall to ever fit into MX-5. Even Toyota quality slipped, but maybe that just BMW taint.
Last edited by SinF; 08-06-2020 at 09:37 PM.
#57
The facts and fictions of GDI
Another part of the problem surrounding GDI engine issues is that no one is educating the consumer about these problems or ways to mediate them with simple things like proper oil maintenance and change intervals.
“We put the oil in the vehicle that the manufacturer requires, not the oil that you want,” Dickmeyer says. “That’s been our policy. What I find disturbing is I try to explain to people why they need a specific oil and they don’t get it or think that I’m overcharging because they never paid more than $22 for an oil change at Jiffy Lube. I try to explain that I’m not overcharging, it’s that everyone else has been charging too little. People aren’t being educated on oil. It’s a lubricant, a coolant, a hydraulic fluid and a dispersant. It has so many functions other than just lubricating.”
Nobody has really generated any kind of information to give to the consumer as to why you need to change your oil more regularly. Instead, it’s turned into a ‘give the people what they want’ situation.
“We put the oil in the vehicle that the manufacturer requires, not the oil that you want,” Dickmeyer says. “That’s been our policy. What I find disturbing is I try to explain to people why they need a specific oil and they don’t get it or think that I’m overcharging because they never paid more than $22 for an oil change at Jiffy Lube. I try to explain that I’m not overcharging, it’s that everyone else has been charging too little. People aren’t being educated on oil. It’s a lubricant, a coolant, a hydraulic fluid and a dispersant. It has so many functions other than just lubricating.”
Nobody has really generated any kind of information to give to the consumer as to why you need to change your oil more regularly. Instead, it’s turned into a ‘give the people what they want’ situation.
#58
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SinF (08-08-2020)
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