Well, we're buying an EV. A dual motor Polestar that is quite under the radar, and feels like a spaceship (as they say). It was a VERY fun test drive, and one of the few cars that I want to choose to afford that I'd be okay doing local road trips in place of my F-Type. The torque and lack of trunk space bothers my better half, and the Polestar seats recline all the way back like a life flat bed. LOL. We'll see if this is a farce or a joy, but I don't mind the reduction of oil stops, dealership service stops, or grabbing gas. My wife can get from Tiburon to Calistoga for work and back with about 100 miles charge to spare. We'll see... how it goes. It's weird going into the future. Amazon is getting final regulatory approval for drone delivery of products. Gonna be a weird future.

 

I thought the iPace was nice enough to drive when I tested it. Handling was good, tending to understeer when pushed, and I did. I'm not sure the salesman was entirely comfortable. I have not driven the Polestar. I should give it a try just to see where the state of the art lies.

You say that like the present is normal. I'm not so sure of that premise.

 

We were close to replacing the wife's vehicle with a Volvo XC40. Then I found out they are owned by Geely, a Chinese company. Then the Polestar looked promising, but they are also owned by Geely. Plus their nearest service location is 300 miles away in Detroit, I'm near Chicago. I really liked the Fisker Ocean, but they seem to be coming out of the gate slowly. If I was in California, I would be looking into the hydrogen cars. Good luck and keep us posted

 

We bought a Volvo xc 90 in '04 taking delivery at the factory, thus launching a nearly-free Europe trip. We used it hard for 150 k miles so would expect your Polestar to get that distance, and we were very impressed with the Volvo engineering and factory. Isn't the Polestar purch a hybrid lease where you exchange the car when you are "finished" with it?

Not intending to hijack a thread, yet I think the electric cars will be too seriously limited by the support networks, and American fossil fuel "sense" will ultimately prevail, powering electricity and more well into my Grandchildren's future.

 

In response to the last two comments, I am interested in the new mentality on servicing an electric vehicle. Tires and brake pads and windshield wipers and windshield wiper fluid. I think windshield wiper fluid is the only fluid in the car? There's not much to service.

But completely respecting the second comment, they've been trying to put out a Tesla that has been on fire for about 3 weeks in a junkyard in sacramento. These batteries are no joke. And I'm not pretentious enough to say it's helping the environment, the lithium problems alone and disposing of these batteries safely is a whole complex thing. But, it's really selfishly more about my wife not having to do oil changes or stop for gas. LOL

Whatever the future is, there is zero doubt in my mind that people will be talking about fun electric vehicles they drove, in the future. Heck, if you ask I'll post the videos of the guys with jetpacks and Quadro flying motorcycle things. The future is coming in every direction. I'm not going to try to stop it.

It reminds me of the William Gibson quote: the future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.

 

There's coolant to keep the batteries under control, and brake and aircon fluid. But I agree, there's not much to service.

 

This is the Tesla fire link Uncle Fishbits mentioned in his post #65


Tesla Goes Up In Flames Weeks After Crash That Didn't Involve Fire (msn.com)

Tesla Goes Up In Flames Weeks After Crash That Didn't Involve Fire (insideevs.com)

 

This is a Bradley GT I helped my stepfather build back in 77-78. I was about 14 so I only steered when we moved it around the garage, he sold it a couple years later and took a 74 MGB in trade. Green with a gold stripe, I drove it slow in the drive, like rain man. Did I actually own these? No, but they were formative vehicles that influenced me later. In the garage at the same time was a 67 Camaro RS convertible that was an uncles car. He was f'n crazy so I never even opened a door on that one!

 

Rememer the 1980 Lectric Leopord? A Renault 5 body with 16 6volt batteries in the rear. Weighed slightly less than a Sherman Tank.My guess is that they were lead acid type batteries. I considered buying one at the time, but the next morning I was sober.

 

Though I never drove or owned one, the Toyota Supra Turbo is a major milestone in the history of car enthusiasts. So, if you saw one in really good condition, how much would you pay for it... Yes, I'm setting you guys up. This Supra just auctioned off at BringaTrailer.com this morning.

What REALLY must sting are all the people who bought one, modified the hell out of it, beat it into the ground, and sold it cheap. Hope they see this!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-toyota-supra-47/

I considered buying one when they were new... too expensive.

I also considered a Nissan 300ZX of about the same vintage... too expensive. That one also auctioned off this morning....
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-twin-turbo-6/

The economy may be cooling, but some people's brains are still overheated!

 

Supras:
The fact so many are selling for north of $125K is just astonishing, but I do get it, namely the below blurb that you can have a classic you can still get parts for.
I copied some Keith Martin's Sports Car Market articles into it, because it's just the best automotive journalism, and I think a lot of classic types might not really be
watching the transfer of interest from mid century american and muscle in the states, to this Japanese Import (Fast and Furious) and 4x4 crowd of the millennials interests.
Italian imports are still there, as the Miami Vice posters are still hot in the minds of Gen X and Millennial types.

But this graph from BaT is wild:









This is a wall of text on Supras:

High Times for Supras

Tweet https://www.linkedin.com/cws/share?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportscarmarket.com%2Fcolumns%2Frising-sun%2Fhigh-times-for-suprasBy Brian Baker on July 11, 2022 in Rising Sun

1998 Toyota Supra Turbo

Lot 463. s/n JT2DE82A4W1003020. 22,962 miles. “3.0-L MFI Turbo DOHC, 6-speed manual, original condition.” Condition: 1. SOLD AT $304,750. Stanley J. Paine Auctioneers, 6/4/22.

Recently, 13 collector-grade Toyota Supras went to auction (along with 15 other sports cars), part of a collection seized from an alleged drug trafficker. The previous owner was pulled over in a routine traffic stop in 2020, when the police found 138 pounds of marijuana in his van. He posted bail but didn’t show up for his arraignment and was later found dead in an abandoned building. This grisly story didn’t scare away bidders, as the 13 Supras sold for a combined total of $2,078,050 (including the 15% commission); this example was the top seller. With some collector cars, such a story might have scared away potential buyers, but here it likely helped the auction. The outrageous tale drew considerable attention to the sale, which was handled by a full-service auction company rather than one that specializes in collector cars. The red-hot Supra, of course, continues on its upward trajectory. This one was well sold, for now.

1972 Datsun 240Z

Lot 76066. s/n HLS3051989. 77k miles. “One-owner, 2.4-liter inline-6, 3-speed automatic transmission, light blue paint, tan vinyl upholstery, 14-inch steel wheels with covers, front disc brakes, chrome bumpers with overriders, push-button AM/FM cassette stereo, dual carburetors.” Condition: 3. SOLD AT $16,275. Bring a Trailer, 6/14/22.

Most Z cars we see at auction are very nice drivers, slightly modified restored cars or meticulous nut-and-bolt restorations. The private market is the opposite, full of basket cases and rust buckets — cars that you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemies. Finding a 240Z in “average” condition is harder than you would think. This example, even though it is not currently running, is complete. It seems like it would take only a good weekend of wrenching for it to be moving under its own power again. A refresh to the brakes, an oil change and a fuel-system overhaul would probably do it. It is mostly original, aside from the blue respray covering the original Green Metallic. Buying from the original owner here is also a plus. The automatic transmission is unfortunate, but a 4-speed manual swap can still be managed affordably. With many Z cars selling in the $20k–$40k range, a driver that needs just a little work at half price could be a bargain. This was a good buy if it doesn’t have any major needs.

1996 Subaru Vivio Bistro

S/N KK33115236. 29k kilometers (18k miles). “658-cc inline-4, front-wheel drive, continuously variable transmission, 12-inch alloy wheels, cloth upholstery, simulated-wood interior trim, manually adjustable front seats, power windows and locks, air conditioning, rear-window defroster.” Condition: 2. SOLD AT $4,807. Cars & Bids, 6/1/22.

With the rise of Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) imports, more and more interesting cars we have never heard of in the U.S. are being shipped across the Pacific. Many of these ’80s and ’90s cars share platforms and parts with models that were sold here, but not kei cars. These tiny cars were considered disposable in Japan, and they become even more so here. Things such as 12-inch tires become hard to source and likely require contacting a specialty importer or buying from overseas. Other repair items that might cause trouble include windshields, timing belts, head gaskets and water pumps. While a kei car may seem cheap and fun, it can wind up being expensive. Considering our subject car’s low price (about a third of which is what it would cost to import), there was no harm done here if the buyer has the money to spend. Though most kei cars won’t be good investments, they can be fun provided you have a local shop that can work on them. Plan to become a parts-hoarder, and familiarize yourself with websites such as Amayama.com to be sure you can acquire necessary maintenance parts from Japan. ♦

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A Supra-Good Deal

Tweet https://www.linkedin.com/cws/share?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportscarmarket.com%2Fcolumns%2Fprofiles%2Faffordable-classics%2Fa-supra-good-dealBy Brian Baker on June 14, 2021 in Affordable ClassicsThe Supra made a name for itself as Toyota’s halo car, enough that the company brought back the nameplate to the U.S. after a 22-year absence. The fifth-generation 2020 Supra is mostly a BMW Z4 under the skin, but like any sports car that sticks around for multiple generations, some versions are better than others.

The fourth generation (1993–98) has been hot among enthusiasts and collectors for some time now. With an appeal stretching well beyond just Japanese-car fans, these “A80” Supras are no longer affordable. So what about the third generation, the “A70”? Are these Supras, built from 1986 to 1992, a worthy alternative? Yes and no, but context is key.

Goodbye, Celica

The Supra has its roots in the lovable 1971–76 Celica, a 2-door hard-top coupe that had the Ford Mustang in its crosshairs. Initially dismissed as a cheap copy, it ended up proving itself with typical Toyota traits: reliability and build quality. In 1977, a new Celica designed by David Stollery (a former child actor turned designer) was given mixed reviews for being heavier, with a softer suspension, and returning worse gas mileage.

This is where the Supra was born … sort of. Toyota took the liftback version of the Celica and stretched the front end a bit to make room for its inline 6. The bogey was now the popular Datsun Z. The new model was sold as the Celica XX in Japan, but here in the U.S. it became known as the Celica Supra, introduced in 1979.

A second-generation Celica Supra (A60) debuted alongside the third-generation Celica in 1982. This is when the design started to really adopt a sporty GT look. The car came equipped with the 145-horsepower 5M-GE inline 6 also found in the Toyota Cressida.

Then, in 1986, another Celica redesign abandoned the rear-drive platform, and the Supra split off for good as a completely separate model.

A “true” Supra

The first true Supra, the A70, came about at a time when Japan was in an economic boom. Its domestic car manufacturers were creating cars loaded with new features, a wide range of trim levels and many different engine variants for the same model.

Seven engines were offered in the Supra in Japan, yet only one came to the American market, in two flavors: The 7M-GE and the turbo variant, the 7M-GTE. This was a capable motor, a 3-liter inline 6, with the naturally aspirated version producing 200 hp and 196 foot-pounds of torque, and 232 hp and 254 ft-lb from the turbo version.

But the 7M-GE also had an Achilles heel: under-torqued head studs. Toyota originally set the torque specs for both motors at the same 58 ft-lb (78 Nm), which led to a lot of blown head gaskets and warped heads. Many enthusiasts have since recommended making sure the heads get tightened to 72–80 ft-lb (97-108 Nm).

The suspension in the A70 traded out the MacPherson-style strut with trailing arms for a new double-wishbone setup. Higher trims received Toyota’s adjustable suspension system, called “TEMS (Toyota Electronically Modulated Suspension)” along with antilock brakes. Third-gen Supras were commonly offered with a metal sunroof, but a targa-roof version was also available.

A climbing market

With the fourth-generation Supra now passing into six-digit valuations at the high end, many would-be owners are “settling” for the A70. Unfortunately, people will still ask you why you don’t have an A80.

However, just as we have seen with a lot of Japanese cars over the past 10 years, A70 prices are rising. These cars in very good condition were once easily obtained for around $3,000–$6,000. Now it is difficult to find a really nice one for under five digits, with the top of the market around $30,000. As with most cars, specific years and colors tend to be more desirable due to low production numbers, such as the 1992 Teal Metallic with Shadow Grey interior.

While looking for one of these Supras, beware of some common issues. We’ve already mentioned that the head studs can be a ticking time bomb, so check for signs of a blown head gasket. Targa-top cars can have leaking seals. Broken solder joints on the taillamp relay can develop over time. Rear subframes sometimes crack due to poor reinforcement. Later model years somewhat remedied this problem with better bracing, but cars that have been driven hard can be susceptible regardless.

Beware as well of the power-hungry guys who have used their A70s as a platform for a performance build. Motor swaps are common in these cars, including with later Supra motors, but Chevy LS engines are another option. While this sure sounds like fun, if you want to buy someone else’s project, make sure you get it for a fun price.

Aftermarket support for these cars is a lot better than it was 10 years ago, partly due to it being a cheaper car to acquire and modify. Still, there are also plenty of owners trying to preserve excellent stock examples of these cars, just as with many other significant Japanese sports cars of the ’80s and ’90s.

While the A70 Supra will always be overshadowed by its younger brother, it can still provide a lot of enjoyment for the price.

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1993 Toyota Supra Turbo

Tweet https://www.linkedin.com/cws/share?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportscarmarket.com%2Fprofile%2F1993-toyota-supra-turboBy Mark R. Brinker on June 8, 2022 in Next Gen August 2022 issue
Courtesy of RM Sotheby’s

• Well-maintained, low-mileage Mk IV Supra Premier Edition with desirable 6-speed manual transmission
• First year for the fourth generation of this legendary Japanese sports car
• Said to be in unmodified condition
• Showing less than 19,000 miles on the odometer at cataloging time
• Finished in factory color scheme of Renaissance Red over Ivory leather
• Powered by a 3.0-liter, twin-turbo, inline 6-cylinder engine (code 2JZ-GTE) producing 321 horsepower
• Timing belt service and water pump replaced in October 2017 by Toyota of Naperville, IL
• Equipped from the factory with removable targa-style roof panel and rear spoiler
• Rides on factory 17-inch, five-spoke alloy wheels
• Accompanied by factory manuals and service invoices

SCM Analysis

Detailing

Vehicle: 1993 Toyota Supra Turbo Years Produced: 1993–98 (U.S. market); 1993–2002 (Japanese market) Number Produced: 11,475 (U.S. market, includes approximately 7,000 Turbo models) SCM Valuation: $68,000 Tune Up Cost: $1,000 Chassis Number Location: Inside left door jamb, left side windshield cowl, right side of firewall, decals on body panels Engine Number Location: Front of block (bottom left side), below oil-filter housing Club Info: The Mk IV Supra Owners Club Website: http://www.mkivsupraownersclub.com Alternatives: 1990–2005 Acura NSX, 1993–95 Mazda RX-7, 1990–96 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo Investment Grade: BThis car, Lot 1101, sold for $176,000, including buyer’s premium, at RM Sotheby’s Fort Lauderdale, FL, auction on March 25, 2022.

As indicated in the catalog, this Mk IV Supra Turbo was an unmolested, relatively low-mileage example finished in an appealing color, equipped with the desirable 6-speed manual transmission and a removable targa-style roof. It sold at the upper end of today’s robust market.

A not-so-super start

Introduced in 1978, the earliest Toyota Supras were dull, heavy, slow and largely unimaginative. In fact, these cars weren’t really Supras at all. The Mk I (A40/A50) and Mk II (A60) were built on the Celica platform and were more correctly 6-cylinder Celicas badged as Supras. In Japan, these grand-touring fastbacks didn’t even carry the Supra name and were marketed as Celica XX (pronounced “Celica Double-X”). The Mk I was offered with three different inline-6 engines, depending on market and year, with the “hottest” one dribbling out just 123 hp for the Japanese market. Then in 1982, the Mk II was released. Built with five different uninspired engines, these vehicles were marginally better than their predecessor and… sorry, I dozed off.

The fun begins

In May 1986, the links between the Celica and Supra lineups were severed, with the monikers continuing as distinct and separate platforms going forward. The Mk III (A70) was the first true Supra and was measurably better than the Celica Supras. This was the Supra that injected fun into the brand with offerings including turbocharged models, and even twin-turbocharged variants for the Japanese market. Turbo U.S. examples produced 230 hp and accelerated from 0 to 60 mph in 6.3 seconds with a top speed of 152 mph.

Japanese-market cars powered by the 2.5-liter, twin-turbocharged 1JZ-GTE engine pumped out 276 bhp and were even faster. During the 1987 World Rally Championship, the Mk III proved to be more than a sporty road-goer when Lars-Erik Torph finished 3rd overall at the Safari Rally. In short, things were looking livelier in Supraland.

Toyota gets serious

Interest created by the Mk III motivated Toyota to aim even higher. Whereas the Mk IV (A80) would retain the front-mounted inline-6, rear-wheel-drive configuration of the prior generations, the similarities would end there. Isao Tsuzuki led the design team with a focus on high performance and weight reduction. Aluminum components were specified for the hood, front crossmember, upper A-arms, oil pan, transmission pan and the optional targa-panel Sport Roof. Additional weight-sparing measures included hollow carpet fibers, a plastic fuel tank and a magnesium alloy steering wheel. For its 1993 release, Supra production was moved from Tahara, Aichi, to the Motomachi plant in Toyota City.

The shape of the Mk IV was a major departure from the first three cars, with rounded, flowing jellybean elements replacing sharp angular lines. Powertrain choices were scaled down to just two engines. The standard Supra had a naturally aspirated 220-hp, DOHC 3.0-liter I-6 (2JZ-GE) with either a 5-speed manual transmission or a 4-speed automatic. The higher-performance option was the Supra Turbo with a 3.0-liter, DOHC I6 equipped with twin CT12A turbochargers (2JZ-GTE) and a 6-speed manual transmission or a 4-speed auto. In the Japanese market, the twin-turbocharged engines were rated at 276 hp. By contrast, U.S. engines were rated at 320 hp, which rocketed domestic Supra Turbos from 0 to 60 mph in just 4.6 seconds and on to a top speed of 177 mph.

Diving deeper

A few comments regarding the Mk IV Supra Turbo cars are in order. First, the factory restricted top speed to 112 mph on JDM cars and 155 mph for U.S. cars. Second, this was an extremely rare instance where a Japanese automobile manufacturer specified that the U.S. model would outperform the Japanese-market model. Third, the performance stats for the A80 were rather incredible for the time. Consider that Ferrari’s 348 had only 296 hp, was a full second slower from 0 to 60 mph, had a lower top speed, and was double the price of the more-capable Supra Turbo.

But there’s much more to tell. The 2JZ-GTE was an astonishing bit of engineering. The cast-iron block, forged crankshaft and enormous main journals produced an engine that was virtually indestructible. The stock engine was easily tunable to more than 500 hp, and with an upgraded ECU, turbo, and fuel injectors, more than 800 hp was readily available. With internal engine upgrades, more than 2,000 hp was achievable. Better still, there has long been worldwide parts support for this legendary engine.

The other incredible bit of kit was the Turbo-exclusive Getrag-built 6-speed manual transmission, which could handle more than 1,500 hp in stock configuration. In March 2010, Tommy Banh raced his Supra Turbo with a stock 6-speed and a built engine, including a stock block and head, at the Texas Mile. From a standing start, his exit speed at the one-mile mark was a nearly unimaginable 247.7 mph.

Who wants a Supra?

The Mk IV was an attractive sports car, and the twin-turbocharged examples received one of the most over-engineered drivetrains ever fit to a production automobile. Despite its abundant attributes, the Mk IV Supra was a commercial disappointment, with fewer than 11,500 units sold in the U.S., approximately 60% of which were Turbo models.

If “unimportant then, unimportant now” is true in the collector-car hobby, how, then, can we reconcile the recent run-up in Mk IV prices?

The simplest explanation is that these cars were never unimportant. It’s just that Supra aficionados were busy going to high school, watching “The Fast and the Furious” movies (where the Supra Turbo had a starring role, driven by Paul Walker), and only racing in video games when these cars were in dealer showrooms. Furthermore, 40-something rich guys of the ’90s didn’t yearn to own a Supra; they had their own Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini aspirations to live out. We’ve seen the same pattern with Acura’s NSX and Mazda’s FD RX-7. A relative lack of interest was followed by soaring prices a few decades later.

Tidy U.S.-market Supra Turbos are currently trading in the $100,000 to $200,000 range, with the highest prices being paid for low-mileage, all-original, unmolested examples in desirable colors and equipped with a 6-speed manual gearbox. Many of these cars were heavily modified, so finding a stock example is not that easy. The relative desirability of the hard top versus the removable roof of our subject car seems to be a matter of personal taste.

Our subject car was a relatively low-mileage Premier Edition example with all the right equipment. The purchase price was toward the top end of today’s market, but by next year this may look like a bargain. More importantly, the buyer acquired an exciting automobile, one they’ve likely been dreaming about for a very long time. ♦

 

My other car a 2018 MB E43 AMG along with the 2006 MB SLK55 with a 5.5l that I traded to get my current 2014 Jaguar F-Type S that has only 17K miles.