I sure hope you are putting is into the former rather than the latter category.

 

Here's a simple question as regards tuning - for those who are 'against' it.

If I were selling you a 495BHP 2014 F-Type V8S, and told you I had flashed it with the SVR 575BHP factory settings, would you qualify that as snake oil, or undesirable?

If I had a V8S and could get 80BHP for $1000 on factory settings I can't think of one reason why I wouldn't do it.

What is JLR going to say - that the engine isn't designed to take that kind of power?

 

*THAT* is interesting. But I think we're getting into the shades of grey with collectors, right? I mean... some will take a mismatched engine and chassis to be able to enjoy the car and have it more affordable, and it is sacrilege to others...

So you have a classic car in 50 years. It's in perfect order. Then the seller says "do you want it stock or flashed with more HP".

So it gets to the intent of the collector... if "collecting" to them is actually a car "as close to rolling out the factory doors"... but I've never understood collecting to be about that???

 

You also have the new trend to find an "honest" car with a good story. What if the modified vehicle was featured in a magazine because of the mods? There will be new angles to market cars to the public by then. Who would have ever dreamed rat rods would bring more money than untouched originals or restored of the same model?

What I'm not understanding is a tune as an actual permanent mod. If you want it stock, just flash it back that way. Or will the "flash count" become another immaterial criteria that makes it cost more with the collector world?

I can hear it now...Unmolested time capsule. Only been flashed 3 times and always at the dealer so you know more performance will never be yours...

 

rebuild it into something even better. (Just like my Land Cruiser)

 

You watch too much "Chasing Classic Cars". Get your cheek off Wayne's zipper will ya.

But seriously, you're trying to predict what will happen 50 years from now? I won't be here, along with many of my forum mates, but remember, they didn't have flashes in the 60's and 70's. A mod meant boring out engines and adding nitrous. Get out of that mindset. Mods today mean making the car smarter, not PED's

Whose to say what will happen then, but certainly if the means still exist to do a flashback, that will satisfy any oem grump. In the meantime, we get to drive an SVR for the cost of a dinner for 6. You're going to pass on that opportunity here and now because of what may happen 50 years from now? Hell, if thats your mindset, borrow $125K against your house. Trailer an SVR into your garage, and let her sit for 40 years. I will promise you that you will have secured the best investment you've ever made by having the only zero mile, time capsule on earth that will auction for at least a few million if you are predicting the F to be the modern day Cobra...Oh wait, whats a few million going to be worth in 2066? Another thing may even be in 2066 there will no longer be a gas station, Pay a hefty ICE tax to start a polluting car. All cars will be hydrogen (or whatever) by then and even electric cars will be so outdated. So much for even trying to figure out what a collector car is anymore. Don't forget the ICE has linked all motorcars up until now. So what again will be a collectible? Especially one that will be half as fast as the newest Tesla. Jesus.

Enjoy the car while you can.

 

I kind of enjoyed reading this stream-of-consciousness post, but damn, how many martinis did you drink before writing this?

 

Shaken, not stirred.

I'm a thread ender.

 

Polaris, I never said I bought into any of the BS people are doing now in the collector car world. I was just pointing out they are doing it and they are paying big money for cars full of cobwebs and dust. And who knows what the hell they will be doing in the future.

As far as mods, I have a custom tune, an intake and a pulley on mine and it makes 520 at the wheel. So I think your comments on modding are misplaced on me. We are in agreement. Make it make as much HP as will be reliable and use it when appropriate.

BTW, I actually don't like watching Wayne Carini. He looks like he might have wood teeth and he doesn't have much of a personality. I much prefer Legendary Motorcar. I watch What's My Car Worth and all the auctions, so I have a pretty good vibe of what is happening in the marketplace. And as I said, I don't understand it, but I know what it's doing.

 

I must disagree with modding and enjoying a possible future collector car, now.

I've always modded my cars in some form or another, because I like to enjoy them now, then trade them in and move on to the next toy. However, none of those cars were collector cars (except possibly the B7 RS4, which I actually kept stock anyway, but not for future value reasons, as I knew I would only keep it for a year or two, but simply because it was great how it was, for what it was).

I believe you should enjoy what you want to enjoy now (within reason), as life is short. So mod away, and enjoy your cars!

However, if you truly believe the car will be a future collector, and you want to keep it as a possible "investment" as such, then it should be kept the way it rolled off the assembly line. Unless you are a special race team that modified it and made it a 1 of 1 that won the 24 hours of Le Mans or some special situation like that. Nothing you do today to modify your car will positively affect the future value of your car to a collector, but might possibly hurt that value. (Historically speaking. Should I put a "past performance does not guarantee future results" disclaimer here?)

Look at all of the 1960's and 1970's muscle cars. The low mileage, completely stock, matching #'s cars go for the biggest money. The resto-mods and the vehicles modified (butchered) back then because it was cool, go for less money.

What you think is cool/great today, may not be so in 2 years, or 50 years. And keeping it the way Jaguar made it is your safest bet, in my opinion.

As far as electric, hydrogen, and even those 6 cylinder twin turbo motors everyone is putting in everything these days...bring em on! That'll make these V8 beasts (which are a dying breed) even more valuable one day.

 

I have never bought a car new and held on to it long enough for it to be worth more than I paid, let alone a great investment. Never.

I think this is an odd rarity in which you had to be lucky. I'm not even so sure those who bought Cobras back in the day can honestly say that they had a hunch that the car would be one of the best investments they have made in their life. We've all told the "I once had a '70 Cuda I sold for $10K... stories". We even had a post here with the regrets we've all had selling cars off before they ballooned in price.

Thats why we are all saying the same thing. Enjoy the car and use it in a way to bring you the most happiness while you still can enjoy it. It'll make no one else as happy other than your grandkids who would have inherited it.

But we bring up a good point. To define a "collectible" as a car that makes the turn at some point to begin to escalate in value as opposed to continue depreciating, it should be easy to assume that the F will easily fit this definition. Based on my historical guess, I would say the F could follow a value path very similar to a Datsun Z, with the exception of the fact that the Z never came with 6-8 cylinder engine options. Perhaps a Vette or Camaro would be a closer model given multiple build type that directly relate to values. I could also see something similar to the BMW 1600, 2002, given the two engine options. I know t's hard to predict but what would you guys guess?

 

To be concerned about what a car would be worth 20-30 years from now is not a priority since pretty much day to day life and the status quo will have slid into the sewer long before that time frame.

In case no one has noticed - at least economically - the US is officially a debt ridden, money printing, turd.

Ask by a date that other night - 'where do you see yourself in ten years?"

"Probably living under a bridge, clubbing a rat for dinner ... you?"

 

I didn't buy my F-type to collect, I purchased as most comfortable track-capable car within my budget. I didn't wanted to be tortured on my commute in Lotus or such. I intend to keep using it in such capacity.

What surprised me is other people's reaction to the car. This, plus comparative rarity of F-types is how I know they will be collectible. I intend to keep taking it to the track and daily driving it (among other cars I have), keeping it 100% stock, while ramping up maintenance to 110%. Will I break even in 30 years? Who knows. My car will never be low-mile garage queen, so I won't get top bucks for it, but at the same time by keeping it stock I will likely be able to keep it Hagerty #2. Modded cars won't ever get more than #3, unless you are already famous racer and used this car to win a race or two.

 

I'm guessing there won't be another date then? And why do people ask these types of questions on dates? Back when I was dating, if a woman asked such a question, I felt like I was on a job interview. I hate interviews...

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your F-type when you rebuild it into a Land Cruiser.

 

You could be holding on to your F-type for a very long time before it ever becomes a "collector car". Some of the Alfa Romeo 4C owners have similar visions of "collector car" profits dancing in their heads. They have a forum too, and they track the number of 4Cs sold in North America (~1200 so far...~50 cars sold each month...many had a steep discount vs MRSP). Some silly sods even bought "launch edition cars" early on, and tried to sell 'em over MRSP only to be stuck with a loss. I got one because it's a blast in the hills, and I got the jag because it's drop dead gorgeous and sounds good. Future resale value wasn't a consideration. If you need to "tune it" to make yourself happy, go for it (even if that means the LFA triple exhaust treatment and the bi-turbo label in the F-type options thread).

 

I put engineering on a holy pedestal and laugh at the lack of it.

There are instances when something is indeed poorly engineered from the factory that can be improved upon significantly- but then we are talking about a company having more competency than the OEM engineers, and there are several that do. My friend who makes kevlar brakes for instance is one, heck he was the top dog at Raybestos and a race car hall of famer.

Then there are instances where someone may not want holistic performance, i.e. a suspension or exhaust that works in every condition, they may want more track- there too so called improvements can be had.

Unfortunately, its far easier to fool the the average pedestrian by guys who fit neither criteria, and so they are.

Paramount / viesu tuning for example is a unbelievable joke, but folks believe them seriously and religiously. Its hilarious. HOWEVER, I am mindful that there is a psychological aspect in someone's need to modify, so if they are told they gained 40hp when they actually lost, they are actually doing everything they promised: deliverin that feelin.

 

It would be interesting to see you have this conversation with the dyno machines which measure before/after performance. Perhaps you can convince them of the subjectivity of the tune?

 

There's been mucho opinion in this thread, and way too much intensity regarding people's opinions. LOL

But I do have a question. Let's say, all things being equal, no one mods any F-Types.

EXCEPT... my base model that literally does share the same engine with the V6S.

Is my car detuned, down to 340hp, or is the S tuned up, to 380hp?

Is that the manufacture tuning the car? If so, is the skepticism of me tuning my 340 to 380 (and likely to 405 or so) simply about the potential problems from inexpert tuners?? Or is it just not "factory settings"?

I won't void my warranty. But when I am out of it, I want to open this engine back up to where it should be. But I don't understand if my 340hp is the engine and then Jag tuned it for the V6S...

... or did they detune mine so it was more affordable?

I am pretty confused at this point... so no emotion here. BUT, I am totally interested in all viewpoints and opinions, whether others think they are wrong or right.

This convo is really interesting!

 

I would Love To!! There is a very good reason these companies dont and cant post Dyno graphs. Remember they are in the numbers business. All they have to do is show quantifiably (as you say) the improvements and people would line up outside the door.

When I asked Paramount for one, what they sent me could only be described as a joke. And they asked for a wire transfer. I know Nigerian scams with more finesse.

Stuart is the exception on the other hand, I would absolutely let him tune and re-exhaust my car, if I wasnt so happy with it as is, and that day might come.