For V6S tune, you are only risking bad tune (note - this is not a negligible risk). Now, for getting to 405 is different. Why do you think JLR didn't tune V6S this way? It would be easier to sell V6S if they could claim 400HP!!! and it is still big enough gap from R to not cannibalize sales. So the concern becomes bad tune + reliability hit. What will fail? Who knows, but if you tune and find out please post to warn the rest.

Sadly, yes its artificial. There isn't any hardware difference between V6 and V6S engines. They decided not to offer true 'stripper' base in US, as a result V6S and V6 aren't that different. So JLR detuned V6 to not cannibalize upper segment of the market.

 

Where the hell *is* the governor cap on this thing LOL

 

Incidentally, I dont think the F-Type will ever be a collectors car. It's a modern car, they will be making plenty of even more modern cars. While well hyped, it was done so to the older crowd, a crowd that will be too old to drive any car 25 years from now. Plus Ian himself is going to campaign against it with the new electric he is working on. That ironically may make it collectible.

 

Every current collector car was also once a modern car. One of the biggest drivers of the collector car market is nostalgia. Guys who have fond memories of cars they couldn't afford when they were new or wish they hadn't sold. I don't see why the F-Type won't fall in that same category 30 years from now.

 

Not sure if this comment was targeted at me but I can guarantee you there is no shrink wrap on my car. Yes I did take delivery at a dealer in Florida and trailered it the 500+ miles home within Florida. The reason was the trade in was trailered in to keep the excess mileage off. In the Ferrari world every mile over 10K deducts value. My 2007 F430 had 13K at trade in. Over 5K of those miles were mine and put on in 2 years. My F-Type now has 3K in 6 months and ready for first oil change. It's not a DD and not a garage queen either.

 

In that case I don't quite understand the position.

Tunes can and do often make a difference, in clearly measurable and mechanically provable ways
There are some (or even many) unethical tuners, but that would not lead me to call the industry laughable or discredited or generally patronized by greater fools.

There are many unethical auto mechanics who mislead and overcharge consumers. But that would not lead me to say that auto mechanics are laughable, or discredited, or that folks who use them are idiots.

That just seems grossly unfair and prejudiced against a highly skilled profession.

 

Maybe there should be more clarity on what F Types might become collectors.

If a manufacturer sold 2,000 to 4,000 cars per year of a certain car for many years in a row, that car is more than likely not going to be a collector car. So in my opinion (my opinion, don't get mad folks)...the F-Type as a whole will not be a collector.

However, certain F-Types might be collectors at some point.

The F-Type replaces the E-Type, after a 40 year break. That in itself is a big deal.

The 2015 F-Type was offered in several variants (V6 / V8 and combinations of S / R). Which means each variant then makes the productions #'s thinner (only X amount of 2015 R's were produced, for example).

The 2015 is the first year of the hardtop, which received accolades for its beauty. The 2015 is the last year of the RWD. Therefore, the 2015 is the ONLY year you can get a hardtop in RWD.


Add in the fact that many manufacturers are going to AWD and leaving RWD behind completely, there will be a market for driving "purists" that will always love RWD.

Then add to the fact that rumor is they'll be going to BMW's twin turbo V6 (and many other brands are going to TT V6s and dropping V8s), and the V8 options that happen to be RWD hard tops will become even more special. And there will always be that collector market for purists who love V8s.

IMO, the best bet for collectability on the F-Type will be the 2015 V8S and R coupes, then Project 7's and maybe SVRs.

My personal opinion is that a 2015 F-Type R coupe has the best odds of being a collector. The first year of the hard top, the last year of the RWD, the only year you could get a RWD hard top, and so on.

I'd be mostly interested in how many 2015 V8 coupes were manufactured, and more specifically the R...but Jaguar corporate responded nicely to my email stating that they couldn't tell me.

 

They definitely detuned yours. They will test an engine on the high end of what it is ever going to do and if it doesn't fail, it's absolutely going to be ok at the lower levels.

 

How many Mustangs did they make in 65 and 66? 1.1M! I'm guessing they've made maybe 40,000 F-types? Less? Or a lot less? And yet the Mustang is still collectable. The question isn't whether they will be collectable, but the value a collector will place on them. Someone who lightly used their V8 Mustang could get 10x what they paid for it even without a restoration.

Objects of beauty always have a place in the future... don't ever forget it.

 

At this point it's impossible for us to guess what the future collecting market for this car is but I do think the early ones and some of the special editions will be. Sure subjective I know as I have a 14 V8S that has a unique build and options. My build number is in the 4 thousands and I think the more the AWD becomes the biggest volume of cars the more special the early RWDs will become. While mine won't be a low mileage car when 20-30 years pass it will be in great shape and I think sought after. If not that's ok too. It's about what I think anyway and what I love. My wife calls it my mistress and I guess she is right.

 

We can't know for certain if any of F-types will ever be collectible, but I can be nearly certain that any F-types that were subjected to "don't list" won't be.

Regarding special editions - Mercedes does a lot of these, and generally they don't make car more collectible if 'base' car isn't. That is, if F-type doesn't become collectible, SVR or British Editions also won't be collectible.

 

I'd agree with the "special editions" not being a guarantee of future collectibility. The F-type is being produced in relatively large numbers (sort of like the 911). Future collectability will depend on the nostalgia factor. This is why people pay a premium for the air cooled Porsches, they remember when Porsches sounded good and had great steering feel compared to the contemporary 911 (which may be faster but it's less involving, less sonorous than its predecessor). A car has to around long enough, and has to be screwed up by regulations to induce our feeling of nostalgia. The F-type may have helped change Jaguar's image to bring new customers to the brand, but I'm not so sure the F-type will be around long enough to reach cult following, and it's not rare enough.

 

I dont think nostalgia has much to do with making a collectible. Hear me out.

I believe people pay for that which is no longer available and was highly desirable at one time. By no longer available I dont mean rarity, but a certain virtue that cant be had in what's available today, that virtue could be style, coachmanship, proportions, power, status and nostalgia.

A 69 mustang had simplicity, style and status that you cant get in the new.

As Fisker was saying, electric cars are going to make way for us to bring back romantic proportions that were all the rage in the 60's when you did not have to fill the engine compartment with an engine and umpteen boxes for the electronics. Think Maserati Zagato, (saw one last night) beautifully small and yet a 4 seater. Gloriously maneuverable and no obscured views (like in the f-type).

That car is coming because Ian is focusing on electric cars, which will have way better performance anyway. There is a potential that the Ftype will be to them what a 90's mustang is today. However, sound may be the one virtue that keeps them desirable.

I give no weight whatsoever as to the number produced, its immaterial. Had a Maserati Bi-Turbo its worth f-all today.

 

Sexy cars always remain desirable over the test of time. Name one sexy car in the past that has not held his own in terms of value in the recent past.

Now we can argue what "sexy" means but I don't think anyone can argue that the F stirs emotion in all who witness it. This is directly related to desirability and will cause one to covet one in the future. Ask yourself - Can the F's styling withstand the test of time. It is exactly the look of a car that man will never tire of. Now the 911 has taken the opposite approach with the cult aspect. Both cars get there in different ways.

Using an E-Type as an example, there is no reason anyone of us can't imagine the future of the F to be bright in terms of desirability. A good hypothesis would be to guess in what year would our F's reach break even. That is to say, how long would it take for the F -R to be worth $100K again based on past sports car performance. We could probably model a reasonable chart based on what we know and have seen. Looking at past valuation charts of aforementioned cars that were similar in terms of category such as:

2002
Datsun Z
911
Bora
Tiger
E30 M3
Mustang
Camaro
Vette
Cuda
280SL
Delorean
Pantera
TR6
Karmann Ghia

Etc Etc...

These are some of the classic sports cars now thats are appreciating heavily that were some of the top cars of the 70's, 80's. It looks like the value spike starts to happen in 30 year cycles.

I think it would be a fair guess that a clean F-R would be worth $100K again in 2035, and say be worth $250K in say 2045. Don't forget a qM may be the average price for a luxury car in 2045!

Sound reasonable?

This may be the one car I never sell but the fly in the ointment as I said earlier could be what would happen over an entire industry shake up in terms of technology. We would have to now think about Jay Leno's steam engine car collection values to get accurate data as the ICE will be long gone by 2045. What did happen to the values of collectible steam cars through the introduction of the ICE at the turn of the century. Will the market remain emotional about ICE technology, so inefficient and dangerous to the earth over time? Interesting to think about.

 

 

Just below my right foot.

 

And don't forget the MTs. They haven't even made enough of those yet to be homologated.

 

DJS made me lol

 

Me too. I get that same sort of feeling when rummaging salvage yards. But its sort of the life cycle of a car. They eventually depreciate into the hands of young people who don't have the knowledge or skills to do quality modifications, don't have the maturity or experience to keep them from getting damaged and don't have the income to repair them correctly when things go wrong. While as a teenager I didn't "modify" my 66 Mustang, I think back on how little I knew and how little I could afford. My older cousin and I tried to fix the body work and paint it but it turned out so terrible I sanded it all off immediately, threw a tarp over it and didn't drive it for nine months till I had saved enough to get it done professionally. I see a lot of cool 80s and 90s cars in the salvage yards today that I think probably would still be on the road if they hadn't been ruined by Maaco or had that plywood spoiler screwed to the decklid.

This was sort of discussed in another thread. Modern cars being so computerized are even sometimes being repaired by the manufacturers now by downloading a software update. But like your laptop computer or phone which worked fine the day you got it, eventually starts acting up the more and more apps are downloaded and the more it gets "updated" as incompatible bits of code sneak in. I suspect that like my Corvette parts vin derivatives and manufacture date codes, one of the things that a future collector will want to verify for originality is the original firmware version.

 

I really doubt 30 years from now that someone who really wants a vintage F is going to scan a flash history on the car unless it becomes part of a Carfax type report. I'm sure the ability to reset the flash to factory specs will be as simple as putting a windows 98 operating system back on a XP machine as some of us used to do for stability sake. Rust, mileage and overall condition will be the determining factor as it has always been over the years, not a flash history I suspect.

Did I take you back far enough with that OS reference?