Hey, everyone. I have lurked around the Jag forums here for about a year and half now and have very closely followed the F-Type forums in particular after the debut of the Coupe.
I hate to start my first thread here with a negative connotation, however, it is the reason for me finally creating a profile on the website.
The general consensus that I have gathered from the posts and threads regarding the new R is one of disapproval, a feeling that I agree with.
Only offering the R with All Wheel Drive here in the US for 2016 was a very poor decision on someone’s part, or a very poor conclusion of a marketing department. I can understand how they came to that decision, thinking that all that Americans care about is 0-60 and quarter mile times. There are those of us, though, who care more about the driving experience rather than the performance. If performance was all anyone was after we would all be driving C7 Z06s.
I am happy that the R is now offered as a convertible, though it was the Coupe that caused me to lust after the F-Type.
I am disappointed that they have gone from the hydraulic to the electric steering, but there isn’t much to be done for that.
The body colored side sills, sides of the front splitter, and the rear diffuser have completely changed the look of the F-Type for the worse. The sides of the splitter have corrupted the ‘Fang’ look of the front. The sills now give the car a bloated look, whereas it looked svelte, and taught, and rounded before. The rear diffuser looks completely aftermarket, like someone just slapped it on thinking it would look cool. Also, I am not a fan of the moved and remodeled hood vents on the AWD variant. That alone changed it from classy, to muscle car.
There may be those here who disagree with me, but I really hope that the Rear Wheel Drive only variant comes back to the US and that they get rid of the ‘Design Pack’ as standard from the V8 models.
I absolutely love the F-Type, but I think that they are taking it in the wrong direction. They are taking what made is special and diluting it.
Just my two cents, tell me what you think.
Adam

 

Adam, welcome!

I found your post thoughtful and perceptive, and despite being a Jaguar fan in general I agree almost entirely with you.

While much attention has been given to the pros and cons of the AWD variant I think you're right to point out that the loss of hydraulic steering is equally lousy. It adds weight, unnecessary complexity, and loss of road feel to what is today a very accurate and well tuned hydraulic steering system. It seems to represent the 'Bimmerization' of Jaguar... A potentially dangerous slippery slope towards mediocrity caused by the desire to appeal to broader audiences.

Despite the svelte and sinuous look of his car designs, Jaguar designer Ian Callum is a personal fan of American muscle cars so we may be seeing an unfortunate streak of that aesthetic in the 2016s.

 

Thanks, Schraderade, I see you on the forums frequently and you always have some good input on any topic.

In nearly all of the vehicles that Callum brings his designs to, he gives them a character, a personality, a soul. That is what sold me on Jaguar after looking at what the Germans had to offer. The XF was my first drive in a Jag and it simply oozed charisma. It was enough to sell me on Jaguar as a brand. I looked at used XKRs for a time before the F-Type Coupe was unveiled. The first time I seen one in the flesh, I was simply awestruck. No joke- my knees went a bit wobbly and I felt as though I had taken a punch in the stomach. It was the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen. Pictures do not do this car justice.

Pertaining to the AWD, the other thing that irks me quite a lot is that the RWD R is still being offered in other markets, just not in the US. Limiting the choices of the buyer when both variants are being manufactured sounds like a terrible business decision. Had they simply changed production of every V8 to AWD I would understand, but not this..

I intend on purchasing an F-Type later next year, I have business that has taken priority over the car, unfortunately. This is a vehicle that I intend to purchase and to keep. Now I am torn as to whether to get the R with all the bits that I do not like; ie AWD, vents, and body colored panels, or to spec out a V6 as I wanted. I am very leery to look at the used market on these cars as I have seen what people do to these types of sports cars. People treat them as disposable rental cars.

I may just end up waiting a while longer, hoping that Jaguar come to their senses and offer the RWD R again. I don't know yet. I just take issue with spending over a hundred thousand dollars on a vehicle that is not the way that I want it.

Adam

 

The hydraulic steering lost is curious one. Improve fuel economy but I doubt the 1mpg is worth the lost in steering feel.

The AWD only in North America must have been cost measure so they don't have to deal with production of RWD in NA market.

I'll reserved judgement on the visual changes. Might look great in person.

Ultimately we'll have to wait for the initial reviews to come. Too early to tell right now IMO.

 

Shift, another guy who I have grown respect for with your posts.

I agree that the 'fuel savings' on the electric steering are entirely not worthwhile for the loss of feedback. I can only surmise that it has to do with emissions/pollution regulation.

In my opinion, the AWD only as a cost cutting measure was a terrible decision as it may cost them overall in sales of the R in the long run. There are plenty of people who have been waiting for the AWD, yes, but now there is a much larger gap between the V6S and the R and some people may be more inclined towards the RWD V6S either for price or purity. I may be entirely wrong, though, in that the average buyer may prefer AWD. I am from Minnesota, the land of ice and snow, and I have no intention of driving the sports car during the winter, AWD or not.

I have looked at just about everything out there on the body colored panels and am not a fan. However, you are correct, all we can do now is wait and see what people say once they start shipping.

 

Agree on the AWD views too... The commercial logic of AWD-only for the US is lost on me too.

British cars have done well by offering a disciplined minimalism when it comes to features, and instead focusing on delivering a pure and aesthetic driving experience.
The 2016 models -- together with announcements around connectedDrive and the Jaguar driverless car initiative -- feel to me like they are taking a Rolex and starting to turn it into a Casio.

 

Hi Adam, welcome! Great post and a thoughtful critique. I personally think we may all be surprised by the AWD system, it seems to be RWD when possible and AWD when needed so there's every chance that it could be a true best-of-all-worlds offering that still drives great but has the benefits of AWD in reserve. Obviously all this remains to be seen, none of us have driven the AWD vehicles yet, but I have to think we may just be in for a pleasant surprise when we do.

 

I agree with SWAJAMES above. If it's done well, it would still behave like a RWD car from a driver feel standpoint and only intervene with power to the front wheels when you're about to lose the rear-end. Now if you are a drifter or like to paint black donuts on the tarmac with burned rubber, you likely will be out of luck, unless they provide a switch to disable the system.

We won't really know until we have a chance to evaluate the system they come up with for the R.

 

While I'm open to what future reviewers will say about the AWD, I'd observe that given Jaguar's scale, design orientation and nimble corporate strategy, the more logical (and "lean") platform evolution to me would have been to focus on making the F-Type considerably lighter, fixing the overly harsh suspension, and focusing on optimizing engine output for more power and efficiency.

This would have resulted in a more performant car, with better fuel efficiency, less aluminum and shipping costs to Jaguar, and greater platform maintainability and reliability without the considerable complexity of AWD and electronic steering.

 

my sense is it's probably as simple as this: F-Type sales are probably relatively weak in areas prone to harsher weather and relatively strong in the more temperate areas. AWD seems to be something that customers want in those parts of the country and Jaguar has probably worked out that AWD will still sell in the temperate areas while opening up the market in the less temperate areas. If I remember right from my BMW days, the addition of the AWD system to the E60 back in the day did drive a spike in sales in certain parts of the country - and I saw enough of them here in the Bay Area to know that customers even here appreciated it too.

I still think we may well be surprised when we get the first reviews in - and I bet those 0-60 times are going to be off the charts....

 

I agree with you. 300+ pounds of weight loss, and a more state-of-the-art suspension system would be #1 and #2 on my wish list. My dream F-Type would be a dramatically stripped-down model without many of the creature comforts standard on even the base car.

I can't understand the logic of offering RWD in other markets, but not the U.S. I suppose it does simplify manufacturing a small amount by reducing one less model. I also don't understand going to electric steering.

 

Hi Adam. I think if you look around you'll find a nice 2015 R in great shape. There will be people who tire of things quickly and have hardly put any miles on their car.
Many of the reviews of the F-Type point to the V6s being the most balanced car to drive and that it's still very fast. Maybe you should drive both when you get the opportunity. You may really like the V6s or the AWD R. If not, look around and you'll find the R you're looking for.

 

I find it very interesting that people usually attribute AWD with a car that is not fun to drive. I agree that I don't think they should have done away with RWD completely for those who like to hoon about drifting rubber and doing burnouts. But to me AWD can be just as fun as RWD, however I'm bias as I was waiting for AWD specifically to place my order. I like the feel of being thrown back in my seat during an AWD launch just as much as drifting around a corner. Plus Jaguar has mentioned that this car will still slide through a turn, so lets not assume its limitations before we see what it can actually do. Wait for the writers and youtube personalities to get a hold of them. The same goes for electric power steering. It could be good... probably won't be, but it could be.


I will agree however that the ground effects totally subtract from the look of the car. Luckily those are easy to change.

 

Greetings Adam. I too read your thoughtful and intelligent - and well-written - post and writing from Maine, I must say that I concur with almost all (screw it, all) you've written; including the lusting after of this most magnificent car. If you've read my "How I Got My F-Type" thread, then you know.

And it seems you know - above all - what will make you happy.

Time, and a test drive or two, should help you make a decision. I will add that I suspect many owners of F-Types do take great care of them - not thrashing them around haphazardly - so I might be open to a previous model (year) as a possible alternative. In any event, I wish you much luck in your quest!

Best regards,
RJ52

 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and input. Many very good points all around.

Foosh, swajames, stohlen, I would absolutely try the AWD, and I may even prefer it to the RWD. A little bit of slip in RWD can be a lot of fun, though I do not plan on replacing tires every other week from burnouts. The only other AWD 'sports' cars that I have driven were an Audi S4 (supercharged V6) and an S6 (V10) both were completely lifeless in the steering department (and lifeless all around if I am honest) and if that is what we have to look forward to with Jag's new electric steering... I am already cringing. Fingers crossed that they throw some extra money in that department. Hope for the best, as they say. Also, contacted the local (75 miles away) dealership and they would be able to change out the body colored side sills and such. That is a big relief.

As per driving cars in the northern climbs, most people have SUVs or pickups that they use as winter drivers. The salt, sand, and snow is incredibly hard on vehicles. The bigger fear, though, are the people who have no idea how to drive in said conditions. If I had not had my EVOC course, I may very well have had my truck totaled within 3 months of buying it because of someone sliding through an intersection.

Schraderade, Foosh, Yes, a lightened RWD F-Type with revamped suspension would be a very tempting proposition. I had read somewhere that Jag was working on a GT3 variant? Any word if that would be AWD or RWD?

F-Type Rookie, if I found a used 2015 that was in the right condition at the right price with the right options, I might bite. If I am honest, I would have trouble spending one hundred thousand dollars on something that isn't the way that I want it. I do love the sound of the V6 but I have a lot of very large open roads and an older Corvette with about the same BHP already. Now looking for something with a bit more bite

Ricky Jay 52, Yes I have read your thread and there is absolutely something to be said for that feeling- when you get something that you have lusted and longed after That is a heck of story of how you acquired your car! Thank you for the kind words as well. I may just have to start perusing the used market for what I am looking for.

Again, thank you all for your input
Best regards
Adam

 

Only thing I can add here is that those body-colored sills have to go,especially in lighter colors where you really notice how they make the car look bloated and not very flattering at all...the FIRST mod I would have to do if I had one.

 

Guess anyone wanting to assess the 2016 will have to wait until they drive it.. the Jag engineers say its 100% rear wheel bias until slip is detected and they claim the electric steering is a cut above whats out now.

So, I have the 2015 R and love it.. when the 2016 comes out I will look forward to driving it to see how it differs, because the rest is guess work.
Lawrence.

 

I think its too early to judge. I am curious how good the AWD R is, and whether it preserves the characteristics of the R.

If one thinks of the 991 Turbo S, I don't think many people would want a RWD version of that car, and so Porsche hasn't shot themselves in the foot by only offering it in AWD. If the AWD R behaves like a Ferrari FF then I would love to buy one.

 

Watching Rs flying around tracks with billowing clouds of smoke from the rear at every turn is a clear indicator that they need AWD to take even significant advantage of that kind of power. Given that the computerized power vectoring will put 100% of the power to the rear and transfer 50% to the front when under-steering or loss of traction in the rear, the driving experience may not have been lost. I'm willing to wait and see.

The BMW power assist units are in my mind are far superior to any hydraulic assist steering units I have experienced in terms of response and road feel. Trade reviews have generally criticized the remote feel of the F-Type hydraulic system. I find it hard to believe Jag made the change for a few hundredths of an mpg. It is more likely they came up with a better steering unit.

Beauty is generally in the mind of the beholder. I agree, they pimped the AWDs and Rs up a bit too much (specifically the design pack). If I had that in mind, I'd have gone for a C7.

 

Having owned 3 BMW's over 10 years through 2014 before buying the F-Type I'm not sure I agree. I find the F-Type's steering far more taut and responsive than BMW's electronic steering, which I found difficult to predict because it is speed-sensitive and still far too light even at speed.

Also, I think we may have just read different F-Type reviews as the ones I've read have generally commended steering for accuracy but have noted that it can be a bit heavy.