I really cannot stand drive by wire systems, I have various types of controllers on all my cars Sprint Booster, Pedal Commander, Go pedal etc. I have sent an email to the folks at Pedal commander (it took and couple tries to get the right one for the Range Rover), to see what they have since they only list 2013 (as does Sprint Booster) on their site. Does anyone use a unit now, and if so which one. With the C7 Is even used a Diablo Sport itune (to increase throttle response) and still needed a Sprint boost to get the pedal to my liking.

 

No discussion ever regarding throttle controllers on the F-Type forum. Keep us posted. I personally would like to go in the other direction with a customizable controller. With the new tune, I find the throttle is too sensitive (even in normal mode) in the early half of the pedal depression

 

I have never used one but lots of guys on my Camaro forums bought them from Vitesse. Originally they swore by them but after only a few months they became more trouble than they were worth. Many codes thrown and most have ripped them out. Not sure if I can mention the forum name so PM me if you want to know.

 

I put Sprint Booster on our base Maserati Ghibli, made huge difference since car had turbo lag even with twin turbos. I turn it off at switch when in for service.

 

I agree, the throttle opens aggressively at about 1/3 pedal travel, which is exacerbated in dynamic mode on a tuned car. This can lead to "twitchy" freeway driving. It would be good to have customized throttle mapping in the moderate throttle scenarios.

 

I feel your pain. Makes me miss cable throttle bodies.

 

That is quite a testament to the performance of the tune you did, because I find the early half annoyingly slow on the base V6.

 

The setup I have now is what Jag should have settled on for the V6S, half way between a base and an R in power and performance. Many of the R owners would have found it to be more than adequate.Here's some weight/power ratios to ponder:

V8R 7.40 lbs/hp
V8S 8.02 lbs/hp
V6 tune 8.36 lbs/hp (VAP tune/Eurotoys pulley)
V6S 9.95 lbs/hp
V6 Base 11.03 lbs/hp

 

I agree, for a bunch of reasons:

• For a RWD car the original R was way overpowered relative to the weight distribution of the design...enough so that Jaguar shifted that entire line to AWD.
• What you have now seems like a much more reasonable power-weight and power-balance than the original S...solid performance for a Supercharged 6 engine.
• The tuned S is much better differentiated from the base, and from competing brands.

Although, given the limitations with the ZF box and the Eaton supercharger I think the performance with just the +11.8% lower pulley is a sweet spot....the additional ~2.8% from the upper seems to have pushed several things beyond good operating envelopes.

 

+1. I'm seriously considering reverting back to the stock upper pulley. That will not reduce the peak hp or tq, but will move those peaks about 4-500rpm higher. This will also improve throttle control at the lower throttle positions.

 

It's only in the US they have done that. They still make the rwd R for most (all?) other markets.

And I still don't understand why some think it's an overpowered car relative to anything?

It's a very easy car to drive AND use all the available power (when dry) in all situations, as long as you know how to modulate the throttle.

There are other rwd cars with a lot more power than the F-type R, AND more challenging to drive.

 

I think it's just a question of proportion.

"Just control the throttle better" is an argument that could be used to justify bolting on any arbitrarily large amount of horsepower to any car....proper driveability ultimately has to factor in the balance of power vs control in a car.

In the case of the R RWD it's certainly subjective, but (1) multiple professional reviewers have pointed at the oversteer and tail-breaking of the R RWD, and (2) Jaguar did move to a more complex and heavier AWD (why would they take this risk if traction weren't an issue, and then why only with the V8 variant?) , so the car does seem to have attracted a lot of informed opinions that it's overpowered in the RWD format.

Ultimately, driveability is subjective so you're certainly entitled to a different view. Overpowered cars can still be incredibly fun to drive, as legions of muscle car owners can attest!

 

It will always be those who says some cars have "too much power to control". They did say that about the Golf GTI when it got more than 105 bhp in a fwd car....


Multiple professional reviewers have also said that "yes - it's a tail happy car, but the dynamic, stiffness and ballance makes it easy to drive even when it wiggles the tail". I have not seen/read/heard that any professional sportscar reviewer has said that the rwd R has too much power, but I have heard/read that several has said that the V6 is enough for them.


I do agree that it is subjective, but I have not found the rwd R to be difficult to drive at all, and I am not a professional driver.


However subjectivity is one thing, facts are another. And the facts are that it is only in the US that they have chosen not to sell the rwd R.


The facts are that the awd R is an addition to the production line, and not a replacement for the rwd R.


The facts are that they do not only make awd models for the V8 but also for the V6 (it's only the base V6 that is not made also with awd).


The reason for making a awd version is to reach a larger market AND if you are going to use the car as a year round car in the snow, wet and slippery conditions, awd is the driveline to have.


So your arguments are to a certain degree based on facts that are not facts, and subjective opinions based on not correct facts.


Have you ever driven a rwd R? If not you should try. It is a lot of fun


ps: there are some rwd cars that are notorius difficult to handle. LaFerrari is one of them.....


https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...aferrari+crash


I don't think the LaFerrari is a bad ballanced car and few would say it's overpowered (expect for those who think all sportscars and supersportscars are overpowered).


The problem is not the power, it's the driver and their lack of respect for the power and their lack of ability to take the time to learn how to use that power.


If you don't think you can learn how to use the throttle in a high powered car properly, buy a car with less power. You will never find a car that suits everyones tastes AND skills.


This is offcours my personal subective opinion. But I am very happy that Jaguar / JLR still make that my dessision to take

 

Yes I've driven several R RWD's and also the R AWD. The tech guys at my local dealer have also commented that they prefer to take the S out over the R because it drives better....we are blessed with dry winding coastline roads here in Northern California, not dissimilar from (although safer than) the winding coastal roads in Italy where I grew up and where they test the Pininfarina cars.

Jaguar certainly had the option to sell the RWD (since the production line was already set up) in the US alongside the AWD. Why didn't they do that in their largest market?? And why did they switch over completely after just 1 year of market release?
It is not because of "all weather driving" as you suggest. The largest F-Type markets in the US are California and Florida where the weather is mild. It's certainly not because the AWD is a cheaper or less complicated engine to support in a very large market. It's because the first wave of reviews for the R was complimentary on the overall car but critical of the control.

Yes, a good driver can drive an overpowered car in the same way that a skilled driver can control a drag car. That doesn't remove the fact that both cars are overpowered.

And yes, there are plenty of cheap (Cobra) and expensive (SLS) cars that are overpowered. Imbalanced design doesn't really discriminate by price!

 

I just read my last post once more, and I am sorry if I came down a bit harsh. That was not my intention. I don't think we differ that much in opinion, but I am still rather surpriced to why they chose to withdraw the RWD R from the US marked - specially, as you say, the US is perhaps their largest market, and you are well experienced with high powered RWD cars?


It might be, as you said, it is because the first reviews in the US was somewhat critical to the control (which I still don't understand, specially when compared to other high powered RWD cars).


I have also driven all the different models (base, V6S, AWD V6 and AWD V8) on a test track, and I found all of them very fun to drive. But strangely enough, the only model that disappointed me a little was the AWD R. I can't put my finger on exactly what it was, but I did not find it as involving to drive as my RWD R. Maybe I had too high expectation from the reviews, or maybe it was because the ballance and weight had changed due to the AWD system and I have gotten so used to my RWD R and how it reacts on my inputs?


The weight difference between the RWD R and AWD R is approximately the same as the weight differense between the RWD V6S and RWD R, and I would guess the ballance of the car will be slightly more towards the front on the AWD R. The ESC seemed to intervene earlier and more as well on the AWD R, so with the ESC on it was difficult to get early access to full power going out of the curves. I found that a bit strange as I would have thought it would have been the other way arround (that the ESC would be more "active" on the RWD R)


I do understand why Unhingd wants a bit more power out of his V6 though, and I think his tuned V6 RWD will be an F-type that really hits the soft spot in ballance between agility, weigth and performance.


If there is one thing I would change in the RWD R, it's not being RWD, not the power (it's not too much and it's easy to modulate), it's not the ballance (it's so nice to have a car that does not understeer after having had several Audi's) - but it's the total weight. 250 kg (550 pounds) lighter, and it would have been the perfect car - if such ever exists

 

Anyways... I agree that the throttle is too sensitive in Dynamic mode. I have the Engine response deactivated in Dynamic mode, and that does help a lot. Not sure if it changes anything else though.

I'd definitely be interested in the possibility of modifying the throttle response. Over slightly bumpy roads even if I don't move my foot the throttle blips pretty noticeably in low gear. And it sounds like I have no experience driving this car to anyone walking by haha.

 

I guess we are all used to different feels, I heard back from pedal commander (I have their unit in my Range Rover V8 and girlfriends GL550), they have a units for the 2013 model and asked me to send them a photo of the connector at the pedal (we had an issue with the RR). My guess is that Jag did not change it from 2013 to 2017 cannot imagine why they would, so will probably order one later today. Pedal Commander has more adjustments on it than the Sprint booster (in some cars that is better). I tried the Vitesse one on my C7 never worked right went back to the sprint booster. They never did refund my money.

 

Keep us posted. I need to tame the beast a bit.

 

Technically, one is only using full engine performance with a WOT at peak rpm. Discuss...

 

True. Throttle position is roughly proportional to performance. However, pedal position vs throttle position can be artificially controlled. I am sensing that I am already at 90% throttle by the time I'm at the 50% pedal position. With cable or rod linkages the relationship between throttle and pedal was closely related. With throttle by wire, the relationship can be programmed (hence the "dynamic engine mode"). With the tune, it's too sensitive in that first 50% of the pedal throw (even with the dynamic engine mode turned off).