Please say it ain’t so...

Hi, I’ve been lurking for a while; this is my first post.

I’ve been searching for an F-Type for a little while. I zoned on the F-Type because it’s one of the few sports cars that offers a manual transmission (and it’s incredible good looks). Then I started reading bad stuff about the manual trans like it slips during fast shifts and makes burning smells.

I’m hoping that this either wasn’t really true, or that if it was true, it was resolved at some point.

What’s the scoop from people who own these?

 

First, if you search this forum you will find a great deal of discussion related to the problems that members have encountered and there have been problems.

My own experience has been a little different and I continue to scratch my head about it. I have a '16 S with 33K miles on it currently and have the original clutch assembly and have had zero problems. I may have been lucky as my VIN suggests that my car may have been one of first to receive the second generation clutch. That said, several have reported that they went through the second generation and third generation clutches too. They are now installing the fourth generation clutch and others report that it appears to be up to the task. Apparently, the first gen clutch didn't make it much farther than home from the dealership.

What I will say about my car is that pretty much like all manuals, first gear is kind of a dog (it pretty much has to be to allow starting on hills) but after that, let the fun begin. With a rolling start in second like getting onto your favorite entrance ramp where there is clear and good quality road in front of you, it will go 20 to 135+ with very fast shifting and remarkable stability (aerodynamics and weight). I would still highly recommend it, but you should probably count on cashing the clutch at some point and will need to get the fourth generation installed.

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...action-158861/

 

Do any of the more recent model years come with the 4th generation clutch as original equipment?

I’m looking at 2017’s, 2018’s and ‘19’s

Is there any chance that one of those years has the 4th gen clutch in it from the factory?

 

Thanks for the link. As I read through it, I realized that it was probably among the places I had read about manual trans problems.

The complaints seem to revolve around 2016 models. I’m hopeful it was fixed in later year cars.

 

The later years did solve clutch problems, but the manual gearbox will never be bullet-proof. This is because JLR took an automatic car and inserted manual gearbox as-is without hardening drivetrain. So if you are a perfect driver, or always drive sedately, then you won't have issues. However, if you like to bang-shift, launch your car and are not too skillful with heel-and-toe then you will end up with drive train component failure.

 

I would expect to drive sedately most of the time, but once in a while, especially with cars like these, you’re going to want to put your foot into it occasionally.

When you say “later years”, is that 2017 and later?

 

SinF, When you say "without hardening drivetrain." what exactly do you mean? heavier duty shaft and axels? If so I am perplexed. If JLR installs a "4th generation" clutch which is capable of handling the power but the rest of the drivetrain is inadequate what good does it do. You just have a different component failing.

Do other manufactures who offer both automatic and manual transmissions (don't ask for names) upgrade the entire drivetrain when a manual is installed or do they go with the heavier duty set up from the get go, and JLR was just cheaping out.

 

No problems here with a '16 build date 1/16, so pretty certain it's a 3rd gen clutch. Just 13k miles though.

 

The difference between a manual and automatic gearbox is that automatic gearbox will never dump a clutch. When you design a car with automatic gearbox your safety margins are much lower, as it shifts much better than a human could.

I have an old Mercedes with an automatic transmission controlled by both air pressure and hydraulic pressure within it. That early 4 speed transmission shifts roughly and did so from new (according to old-timer mechanics that worked on these). However, drivetrain was designed to take it - it has 2 massive flex disks, differential and driveshaft build to take punishment. Manual transmission is like that gearbox - it puts more stress through drivetrain.

This is exactly what happened to me with 2nd generation clutch. Both gearbox and differential kicked the bucket and JLR didn't even fuss as to why it happened - they knew about it and just express shipped replacement parts.

My understanding is that the heavier setup is used fro the get go and JLR didn't plan to have MT, but wanted to sold more F-types to driving enthusiasts. They did (I would have never purchased an automatic F-type) but as early reports of issues came out from journalists and early adopters, they didn't move that many.

 

I custom ordered one of those 2016 with the issues... volvo flywheel or something? They covered it all under warranty and I was lucky I had a dealer that was nice to me, but also I was nice to them.
Then, after an O2 update, the car just became a trainwreck, lemoned out, and JLR HQ decided to take the car back and buy a 2019 custom made identical version... so I am uniquely qualified to comment.

I had the first model year, with problems, and the last model year, 2019.5, I believe, of the manual transmission.

Don't hesitate. Get a short shifter as the throw is a little long. Get it under warranty and negotiate the facts from those helpful threads, with invoices, as part of the sale... figure out what is in the vehicle, and if it's not updated, update it as part of transaction.

It's the most fun thing, man. During our lockdown, I've only been able to cheat outside by rowing gears. 2 weeks of this. If my life is taking a 2 hour drive a day, on roads that are empty, ok. That's fine.

 

Very informative posts. The first thought that came to my mind was, Will the manual transmission take a place in Jaguar lore like Lucas electrics?

 

Too few MTs were made for this debacle to register. Even fewer of these cars are raced.

You will be fine driving your stick for weekend stroll through countryside.

 

Dumping the clutch, bang-shifting, or any other adolescent activity not needed for maximum performance can kill any drivetrain. The gen 4 clutch has resolved all of the engagement issues. I have one of the earliest MTs shipped to the U.S.and, as many of our forum members have witnessed in person, I am not gentle with the throttle (I'm averaging less than 15 mpg in the V6). With the pulley/tune the engine is producing more than 450hp/425lb-ft. The drivetrain can handle it.
The short-shifter does indeed make it sweet experience but, unfortunately, the aftermarket source has ceased production due to the limited market (only about 1000 MTs delivered to the US in total over the years). However, I have modified an OEM shifter that another forum member will be testing, hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

 

Like the others said, much depends on how you drive it, and that is true of any manual transmission car. I am not hard on the car, and would be considered a spirited but not aggressive shifter/driver. I bought with 11K a year ago and now am at 15K and no problems. I have driven both, and If you want to win stoplight drag races then the automatic is probably your choice. However, I chose the S manual for its exclusivity, possible future collectability, and most importantly for the fun factor.

 

Thanks for all the valuable responses.

Can anyone comment on the clutch delay valve thing I’ve read about? Based on what I’ve read, it slows the clutch engagement to make shifting smoother, it it sounds like if you’ve got your foot in it, the clutch will slip while engaging. Is that something that’s also addressed in the 4th gen clutch?

 

The CDV, originally thought to be an issue in slowing down a positive and fast shift really is not a problem like it is on the BMWs. The poor engagement in the early trannys was solely due to the weak gen 1 clutches. I had removed the CDV when I had a first gen 1 clutch and there was absolutely no difference. With a properly functioning clutch, the CDV on the F-Type does, however, serve to protect the drivetrain, without otherwise being intrusive, in the event your foot accidentally slips off the clutch pedal. I

 

Hmm, I have bought a manual 2017 F-Type V6 base to use as a track car - now waiting to get it shipped from Germany (provided there are no Corona related issues).

Should I be worried about the clutch not being able to handle it? Is there any way to figure out what generation clutch I have on the car, e.g. through the VIN?

 

What is the production date of the car?

 

Well, I don't know really. Can I find out from the VIN?

If I look up the VIN at osh.jaguar.com at least start of warranty was 31/08/2016 and it is a MY2017.