turbocharger vs supercharger
#21
#22
Superchargers do essentially the same thing, but the power comes from a belt driven by the engine. High-speed air also creates heat.
It's a bit of a trade-off between super and turbos in terms of reliability because superchargers, being belt driven and spinning at very high rpms, also have wear and tear issues.
#23
Swapping out the OEM filter with a K&N free flow filter could enhance the whine from under the hood. Doing that on my MINI had a huge impact on sound level. In fact, despite the sport exhaust, the SC is now the only thing you can hear under full trot. Sounds like a jet engine on takeoff. The reduction pulley also contributed. The reduction pulley for the V6S is already sitting on my desk.
Anyone else share the same opinion?This guy hasn't shared his ssn, so he can't be trusted, but his suggestion is interesting.
#24
You won't get the old-school whine from the TVS blowers like the Eatons on the 4.0/4.2 engines. The TVS is much quieter to begin with due to the more efficient lobe design. The internal gears on the old blowers also contributed to the whine, whereas the gears on the TVS are also much quieter.
To maximise the whine on a 5.0 (or 3.0), i'd be;
Overdriving the blower with a smaller upper pulley
Air filters i.e. K&N or similar
Change the intake piping from the plastic tubing that has lots of baffles/dampers to straight steel/alloy tubing (have a look here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...intake-133543/)
Remove the bonnet liner or change it to the glued-on type
Remove the sound insulation around the supercharger & charge coolers. (not sure if you can get them out without disassembling the charge coolers. There are two pieces of foam one under each charge cooler.
Removing the engine cover should also make the whine a bit louder.
But even then you will struggle to get it sounding like this unfortunately...
EDIT
Here's what the intake of the Bonneville XFR looked like
To maximise the whine on a 5.0 (or 3.0), i'd be;
Overdriving the blower with a smaller upper pulley
Air filters i.e. K&N or similar
Change the intake piping from the plastic tubing that has lots of baffles/dampers to straight steel/alloy tubing (have a look here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...intake-133543/)
Remove the bonnet liner or change it to the glued-on type
Remove the sound insulation around the supercharger & charge coolers. (not sure if you can get them out without disassembling the charge coolers. There are two pieces of foam one under each charge cooler.
Removing the engine cover should also make the whine a bit louder.
But even then you will struggle to get it sounding like this unfortunately...
EDIT
Here's what the intake of the Bonneville XFR looked like
Last edited by Cambo; 03-06-2015 at 03:03 AM.
#25
Regarding social security number: if you show me yours, I won't show you mine.
#26
Good SC systems will also have intercoolers. The compression of air releases massive amounts of heat. Left un-cooled this has a negative impact on air density entering the intake manifold. I was able to wring a few more horses out of the MINI by mounting a larger intercooler from a JCW GP.
#27
Good SC systems will also have intercoolers. The compression of air releases massive amounts of heat. Left un-cooled this has a negative impact on air density entering the intake manifold. I was able to wring a few more horses out of the MINI by mounting a larger intercooler from a JCW GP.
#28
Not sure what you don't understand, but let me spell it out. I am suggesting that you replace the original equipment manufacturer's air filters with K&N filters (2x$65). Additionally Cambo's suggestions above will help as well. My experience is with the Eaton blower so Cambo's remarks should carry more weight.
Regarding social security number: if you show me yours, I won't show you mine.
Regarding social security number: if you show me yours, I won't show you mine.
#29
After having (and being disappointed in different ways with) a number of high-revving motors that only started pulling after 5K-6K, give me a motor that starts pulling at 1200-1500. The Jag does that. I gotta add, though, that turbo designs today have come a long way in minimizing the lack of low-end grunt of the past, with the use of twin-turbo and twin-scroll (changing-pitch) turbine designs. In the end, boost is boost. Compromises in each design, many of which have been mentioned earlier in the thread.
#30
I've generally taken the view that provided the engine has sufficient power on tap which is accesible when you need with little to no lag, then it doesn't really matter much what type of forced induction got you there. Jaguar's supercharged engines in the F Type deliver on these requirements very well and as a huge added bonus haven't messed up the sound the way turbos typically do. Jaguar's solution works and for me it's more than good enough.
#31
Faking It: Engine-Sound Enhancement Explained - Tech Dept. - Car and Driver
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Unhingd (03-06-2015)
#32
#33
#34
The supercharger is certainly much cheaper than a turbo system. There are far fewer parts differences between NA 5.0L and the SC version compared to what would be necessary for a turbo charged one. In order to have the instant boost of the SC you would need a twin turbo application to have a smaller turbo kick in at lower rpms to avoid the turbo whole, add to that a different exhaust.
A rule of thumb is that a turbo can add up to 50% more power and a SC which cannibalizes power through the belt about 30%.
Has Jaguar "sacrificed" power for sound - most absolutely. It is very hard to get a good exhaust sound out of a 911 turbo. Jaguar spent a lot of time and money developing the exhaust to sound the way it does AND pass noise emissions.
Yes this car was developed to trigger emotions and not for pure performance numbers ... other wise it would be a failure.
As for missing performance ... I can get tires to light up in third gear by simply going firewall, so I already have more power than the platform can put down ...
A rule of thumb is that a turbo can add up to 50% more power and a SC which cannibalizes power through the belt about 30%.
Has Jaguar "sacrificed" power for sound - most absolutely. It is very hard to get a good exhaust sound out of a 911 turbo. Jaguar spent a lot of time and money developing the exhaust to sound the way it does AND pass noise emissions.
Yes this car was developed to trigger emotions and not for pure performance numbers ... other wise it would be a failure.
As for missing performance ... I can get tires to light up in third gear by simply going firewall, so I already have more power than the platform can put down ...
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ronbros (03-07-2015)
#38
Been judging sounds carefully at cars and coffee lately. The ones that have impressed me most have been; Masers, Ferraris and surprisingly the Lexus LFA which has a bit of a tortured scream but very attractive nevertheless. The F-Types can hole their heads up in the company.
I was also playing freeway tag in traffic with a Merc C63 AMG which makes quite an exciting growl when being hammered, it uses turbochargers and still manages to sound great.
I was also playing freeway tag in traffic with a Merc C63 AMG which makes quite an exciting growl when being hammered, it uses turbochargers and still manages to sound great.
Last edited by AnD3rew; 03-07-2015 at 04:43 PM.
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ronbros (03-08-2015)
#39
Nice analysis here...
This guy did a nice job of the pro and cons: Turbo vs supercharger | Simplystance.com
I've had both types and prefer superchargers mostly because I like power off the line and don't road race.
I've had both types and prefer superchargers mostly because I like power off the line and don't road race.