V6 Base LSD Swap
#161
@ElmerKTM Thanks for sharing your first impressions.
I also found a improved rear grip after installing my Quaife ATB , moving up from an OEM Open Diff (base model V6).
Usually the V6S model F-Types with OEM LSD perform better than the Open diff cars, and act in a similar manner as the Quaife ATB.
I am wondering if your OEM LSD with failing clutch discs provided any LSD benefit, or if it was defaulting back to an Open Diff.
Either way, it is great to hear that the rear diff upgrade kit + special tools worked smoothly with a 1 day shop turn around.
I recently participated in a JCNA autocross and was able to drop my times by about 5%, some of which was due to the Quaife ATB.
(other contributors were the ideal weather, accumulation of experience on this course, and new Pilot S4S tires).
Onca Engineering will consider making a new batch of Quaife ATB units if there is interest.
The applicability chart is still under development...
Application Table Quaife ATB for Jaguars with DANA AdvanTEK gears.
I also found a improved rear grip after installing my Quaife ATB , moving up from an OEM Open Diff (base model V6).
Usually the V6S model F-Types with OEM LSD perform better than the Open diff cars, and act in a similar manner as the Quaife ATB.
I am wondering if your OEM LSD with failing clutch discs provided any LSD benefit, or if it was defaulting back to an Open Diff.
Either way, it is great to hear that the rear diff upgrade kit + special tools worked smoothly with a 1 day shop turn around.
I recently participated in a JCNA autocross and was able to drop my times by about 5%, some of which was due to the Quaife ATB.
(other contributors were the ideal weather, accumulation of experience on this course, and new Pilot S4S tires).
Onca Engineering will consider making a new batch of Quaife ATB units if there is interest.
The applicability chart is still under development...
Application Table Quaife ATB for Jaguars with DANA AdvanTEK gears.
#162
The following users liked this post:
HermanWiegman (07-16-2024)
#163
Quaife ATB experience
Hi All,
Just wanted to give my experience with Quaife ATB since installing it about 2 and a half months ago.
Some background; my car is a 2016 V6- base, 6spd manual which I purchased used in 2019 with 4k miles. I have since put on and additional 34k miles.
It has a VAP crank pulley and tune as well as Mina gallery upper and lower intake. I absolutely love this car and with the modifications it has really come alive.
The ATB has been one of the best modifications that I've made. Along with the pulley and tune, it has transformed the car into a true sports car.
The difference in traction is noticeable immediately coming off the line and it feels like the car can finally put the power down into the pavement.
Handling through turns is also markedly improved and the car handles in a much more linear, predictable fashion.
Installation was not terribly difficult, but does require the removal of several components to access the differential. Herman's detailed instructions and support were invaluable during the process.
I did have a slight issue with the unit being dropped during shipping which resulted in a slightly dented pinion yoke, which I was able to hammer back into shape with the help of a CV bearing cup which Herman sent me.
Otherwise the install went smoothly and I decided to replace the cats and downpipes with the VAP 200 cell units while I had the stock units off.
These are much louder than stock and I have experienced some resonance/vibration noise with them, especially with the muffler valves open. I was concerned this noise could be coming from the diff, but I am quite certain that it is due to the vibration of the exhaust transmitting into the cockpit.
I did change the diff oil twice to inspect it and initially noticed what seemed to be a lot of metal paste on the drain plug and some "shimmering" of the oil, but in discussion with Herman, he noticed the same thing and Quaife did say that some wearing in of the gears is normal initially. On my second oil change the paste was much less and the oil cleaner.
So, in short if you are considering going from an open diff to an LSD like I was, the ATB is a huge improvement and will really make driving the car as it was intended that much more fun.
I am looking forward to many more miles of driving enjoyment from my F-type.
Thanks for reading and happy to answer any questions anyone might have.
Jordan
Just wanted to give my experience with Quaife ATB since installing it about 2 and a half months ago.
Some background; my car is a 2016 V6- base, 6spd manual which I purchased used in 2019 with 4k miles. I have since put on and additional 34k miles.
It has a VAP crank pulley and tune as well as Mina gallery upper and lower intake. I absolutely love this car and with the modifications it has really come alive.
The ATB has been one of the best modifications that I've made. Along with the pulley and tune, it has transformed the car into a true sports car.
The difference in traction is noticeable immediately coming off the line and it feels like the car can finally put the power down into the pavement.
Handling through turns is also markedly improved and the car handles in a much more linear, predictable fashion.
Installation was not terribly difficult, but does require the removal of several components to access the differential. Herman's detailed instructions and support were invaluable during the process.
I did have a slight issue with the unit being dropped during shipping which resulted in a slightly dented pinion yoke, which I was able to hammer back into shape with the help of a CV bearing cup which Herman sent me.
Otherwise the install went smoothly and I decided to replace the cats and downpipes with the VAP 200 cell units while I had the stock units off.
These are much louder than stock and I have experienced some resonance/vibration noise with them, especially with the muffler valves open. I was concerned this noise could be coming from the diff, but I am quite certain that it is due to the vibration of the exhaust transmitting into the cockpit.
I did change the diff oil twice to inspect it and initially noticed what seemed to be a lot of metal paste on the drain plug and some "shimmering" of the oil, but in discussion with Herman, he noticed the same thing and Quaife did say that some wearing in of the gears is normal initially. On my second oil change the paste was much less and the oil cleaner.
So, in short if you are considering going from an open diff to an LSD like I was, the ATB is a huge improvement and will really make driving the car as it was intended that much more fun.
I am looking forward to many more miles of driving enjoyment from my F-type.
Thanks for reading and happy to answer any questions anyone might have.
Jordan
The following 3 users liked this post by Jmo:
#164
Hi All,I did change the diff oil twice to inspect it and initially noticed what seemed to be a lot of metal paste on the drain plug and some "shimmering" of the oil, but in discussion with Herman, he noticed the same thing and Quaife did say that some wearing in of the gears is normal initially. On my second oil change the paste was much less and the oil cleaner.
The following users liked this post:
Onca Engineering (07-22-2024)
#165
@ElmerKTM Thanks for sharing your first impressions.
I also found a improved rear grip after installing my Quaife ATB , moving up from an OEM Open Diff (base model V6).
Usually the V6S model F-Types with OEM LSD perform better than the Open diff cars, and act in a similar manner as the Quaife ATB.
I am wondering if your OEM LSD with failing clutch discs provided any LSD benefit, or if it was defaulting back to an Open Diff.
Either way, it is great to hear that the rear diff upgrade kit + special tools worked smoothly with a 1 day shop turn around.
I recently participated in a JCNA autocross and was able to drop my times by about 5%, some of which was due to the Quaife ATB.
(other contributors were the ideal weather, accumulation of experience on this course, and new Pilot S4S tires).
Onca Engineering will consider making a new batch of Quaife ATB units if there is interest.
The applicability chart is still under development...
Application Table Quaife ATB for Jaguars with DANA AdvanTEK gears.
I also found a improved rear grip after installing my Quaife ATB , moving up from an OEM Open Diff (base model V6).
Usually the V6S model F-Types with OEM LSD perform better than the Open diff cars, and act in a similar manner as the Quaife ATB.
I am wondering if your OEM LSD with failing clutch discs provided any LSD benefit, or if it was defaulting back to an Open Diff.
Either way, it is great to hear that the rear diff upgrade kit + special tools worked smoothly with a 1 day shop turn around.
I recently participated in a JCNA autocross and was able to drop my times by about 5%, some of which was due to the Quaife ATB.
(other contributors were the ideal weather, accumulation of experience on this course, and new Pilot S4S tires).
Onca Engineering will consider making a new batch of Quaife ATB units if there is interest.
The applicability chart is still under development...
Application Table Quaife ATB for Jaguars with DANA AdvanTEK gears.
x260 XF 30d 2.19 diff (GX-63-4A213-FA) can anyone confirm if it is possible? Greetings
#166
@Luka Bilic @RPGx260
I saw your interest in the Quaife ATB for your Jaguars.
This upgrade makes the rear end of the rear wheel drive Jaguars much more "planted" and helps with increased cornering speeds... or better traction on slippery surfaces.
Onca Engineering has applied the ATB design to a few gear ratios, and has also found that some gear ratios would require a new design with altered ring gear mounting face.
See chart above for details.
First, the commissioned Quaife ATB was designed for the "modern" Jaguars with rear wheel drive (and perhaps some AWD models that have the same rear diff design).
In order to confirm compatibility with a new gear ratios, I would need to take some measurements on the differential carrier. Note: used rear diffs may be available for less than $400 which would support the engineering necessary, and could also become a replacement unit for your Jaguar cars.
Note: the 2.19 gear ratio sounds like it may be "out of range" .. just as the 2.56 ratio on the V-8 models was out of range for the ATB carrier that I designed.
Best,
Herman Wiegman
Onca Engineering
I saw your interest in the Quaife ATB for your Jaguars.
This upgrade makes the rear end of the rear wheel drive Jaguars much more "planted" and helps with increased cornering speeds... or better traction on slippery surfaces.
Onca Engineering has applied the ATB design to a few gear ratios, and has also found that some gear ratios would require a new design with altered ring gear mounting face.
See chart above for details.
First, the commissioned Quaife ATB was designed for the "modern" Jaguars with rear wheel drive (and perhaps some AWD models that have the same rear diff design).
In order to confirm compatibility with a new gear ratios, I would need to take some measurements on the differential carrier. Note: used rear diffs may be available for less than $400 which would support the engineering necessary, and could also become a replacement unit for your Jaguar cars.
Note: the 2.19 gear ratio sounds like it may be "out of range" .. just as the 2.56 ratio on the V-8 models was out of range for the ATB carrier that I designed.
Best,
Herman Wiegman
Onca Engineering
Last edited by Onca Engineering; 08-22-2024 at 08:35 AM.
#167
@RPGx260
I extended my Gear Ratio chart to cover the 2.19 gear ratio for Diesel cars.
The gear set is probably 16:35 which is far away from the V8's 2.54 gear ratio (gear set = 9:23)
This gives me hope that the Quaife ATB that I commissioned will fit this gear set, with a taller spacer ring.
This would be an easy adaptation, which is what I expected for some of the different gear ratios.
Are you willing to help me (Onca Engineering) purchase a used 2.19 gear ratio rear end and see if it is compatible with the Quaife ATB?
I extended my Gear Ratio chart to cover the 2.19 gear ratio for Diesel cars.
The gear set is probably 16:35 which is far away from the V8's 2.54 gear ratio (gear set = 9:23)
This gives me hope that the Quaife ATB that I commissioned will fit this gear set, with a taller spacer ring.
This would be an easy adaptation, which is what I expected for some of the different gear ratios.
Are you willing to help me (Onca Engineering) purchase a used 2.19 gear ratio rear end and see if it is compatible with the Quaife ATB?
#168
It has been a few weeks since I successfully installed a Quaife ATB in my '16 F-Type, and I wanted to publicly thank Herman/Onca Engineering for his invaluable assistance. If it were not for his efforts to work with Quaife to design and order the units, create and publish installation instructions and videos, and provide the necessary shims, bearings, seals, and tools, my base trim F-Type would still be handicapped with its OEM open differential.
A wonky supercharger coupler has limited my post installation assessment of the Quaife, but so far, it seems that everything is working with no strange noises or vibrations. I performed the installation in my garage, with the car on jack-stands. This is the second time I've removed a differential from a rear subframe, but it was the first time I've removed and replaced the inner working of a differential. Following Onca Engineering's instructions and videos made the process fairly straightforward.
I have a few observations from the swap:
- The ~$100 Harbor Freight transmission jack shown in the Onca Engineering removal and installation videos was money well spent. Using it made removing and installing the muffler and differential much easier.
- I did not remove the downpipes and catalytic converters. I just removed the exhaust mid-pipe, muffler, and associated heat shields. Removing and installing the mid-pipe required some gentle persuasion with a hammer and some scrap wood. I can't say that leaving the downpipes and cats in place was necessarily easier or faster, but it is an option that allows you to remove fewer parts from the car.
- I did not disconnect the driveshaft from the transmission. I only disconnected the driveshaft from the differential (as I was lowering the differential from the rear subframe). I used a spare jack stand to keep the aft portion of the driveshaft elevated and out of the way.
- I was expecting the driveshaft to separate easily from the differential. This was not the case. It also required some gentle persuasion with a hammer and precision tool. Onca Engineering's video titled "Sport Touring Clutch" addresses removing the driveshaft from the differential.
- I lowered the subframe to access the front differential mounting bolts as per Onca Engineering's instruction. It was a relatively easy process with the transmission jack.
- Removing and reinstalling the large, heavy "K" brace becomes a bit of a puzzle with jack-stands supporting the car and/or rear subframe. I had to reposition the jack-stands a few times in order to get it clear of the car.
- Seating the axles with the new spring clips into the differential took a bit more effort than I expected. A "very healthy" shove was required.
My base-trim F-Type has a manual transmission, a VAP crank pulley and tune, and just under 30,000 miles on the odometer. Once I get the supercharger coupler sorted, I'll post some additional driving impressions. I plan to change the differential fluid in a few hundred miles and will post an update after I complete that.
Thanks again, Herman.
A wonky supercharger coupler has limited my post installation assessment of the Quaife, but so far, it seems that everything is working with no strange noises or vibrations. I performed the installation in my garage, with the car on jack-stands. This is the second time I've removed a differential from a rear subframe, but it was the first time I've removed and replaced the inner working of a differential. Following Onca Engineering's instructions and videos made the process fairly straightforward.
I have a few observations from the swap:
- The ~$100 Harbor Freight transmission jack shown in the Onca Engineering removal and installation videos was money well spent. Using it made removing and installing the muffler and differential much easier.
- I did not remove the downpipes and catalytic converters. I just removed the exhaust mid-pipe, muffler, and associated heat shields. Removing and installing the mid-pipe required some gentle persuasion with a hammer and some scrap wood. I can't say that leaving the downpipes and cats in place was necessarily easier or faster, but it is an option that allows you to remove fewer parts from the car.
- I did not disconnect the driveshaft from the transmission. I only disconnected the driveshaft from the differential (as I was lowering the differential from the rear subframe). I used a spare jack stand to keep the aft portion of the driveshaft elevated and out of the way.
- I was expecting the driveshaft to separate easily from the differential. This was not the case. It also required some gentle persuasion with a hammer and precision tool. Onca Engineering's video titled "Sport Touring Clutch" addresses removing the driveshaft from the differential.
- I lowered the subframe to access the front differential mounting bolts as per Onca Engineering's instruction. It was a relatively easy process with the transmission jack.
- Removing and reinstalling the large, heavy "K" brace becomes a bit of a puzzle with jack-stands supporting the car and/or rear subframe. I had to reposition the jack-stands a few times in order to get it clear of the car.
- Seating the axles with the new spring clips into the differential took a bit more effort than I expected. A "very healthy" shove was required.
My base-trim F-Type has a manual transmission, a VAP crank pulley and tune, and just under 30,000 miles on the odometer. Once I get the supercharger coupler sorted, I'll post some additional driving impressions. I plan to change the differential fluid in a few hundred miles and will post an update after I complete that.
Thanks again, Herman.
The following 4 users liked this post by waldo:
#169
@waldo
Great to hear you were able to extract and rebuild your V6 rear differential with the kit and instructions provided.
Thanks for sharing the tip on removing just the rear portion of the exhaust system when extracting just the rear diff.
Isn't the "K" brace under the rear subframe a total pain in the posterior side?
Good of you to change the diff oil after the first few hundred miles. The helical gears will shed some metal paste.
I am looking forward to your driving impressions. The rear of your car should feel so much connected to the road.
Top Tip: use TracDSC (if equipped) to experience less intervention from the traction control.
To other interested Jaguar enthusiasts...
I can commission a new batch of Quaife ATB to meet demand. Please PM me with your application.
Drive Well,
Herman
Onca Engineering
Great to hear you were able to extract and rebuild your V6 rear differential with the kit and instructions provided.
Thanks for sharing the tip on removing just the rear portion of the exhaust system when extracting just the rear diff.
Isn't the "K" brace under the rear subframe a total pain in the posterior side?
Good of you to change the diff oil after the first few hundred miles. The helical gears will shed some metal paste.
I am looking forward to your driving impressions. The rear of your car should feel so much connected to the road.
Top Tip: use TracDSC (if equipped) to experience less intervention from the traction control.
To other interested Jaguar enthusiasts...
I can commission a new batch of Quaife ATB to meet demand. Please PM me with your application.
Drive Well,
Herman
Onca Engineering
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)