What do you mean?
The only previous post you have written that is not about this fuel leak is this (which is about another leak....):

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f-type-x152-72/2014-f-type-v6-water-floor-188236/#post1749168

 

 

That's not an acceptable way to speak to the members of this forum, fix your attitude or I will remove you from this forum. First and last warning.

 

When a service rep starts talking about in case there is legal action they need a recorded statement the conversation ends there. I could hear a mans voice in the background telling the woman what to say. Maybe this is Jaguars new approach to customer service. whisper ... try and get them to say something.... This approach was all wrong and will cost them in the long run. The pictures, flyers at Barrett Jackson etc. will end the end cost them dearly. I don't care if the car is repaired out of pocket. The root cause will be determined and made public. The subsystems failed to detect a serious problem, end of story. The car will be sold and I will continue. this is why there are no pictures of the car. I still own it. But not for long. I have warned the rest of the owners which I feel I am obligated to do.

 

My previous posts were about other completely different topics all together. Trolls don't wait three years to mention issues with a car that caused a fire. You only looked at my most recent posts about this car.

 

The fuel luckily followed the slope of the garage floor and ran out and to the right. That location is where my air compressor is. It's electric motor is less than 20 inches from the ground and the location the fuel ran to. If you look at the entrance to the garage the floor is all black from the fire. Not the flat part of the floor. The drips are from the sooty black gasoline running out. Try and use water dilute black soot. Only gasoline can do this.

Take a picture of your F-type after startup and show me one that drips this much of any liquid. This is RAW FUEL. The entire garage reeked of gasoline. A week earlier I was in the garage and I smelled what seemed like minor paint fumes. This is what I smelled. It already had a problem developing.

 

 

So behind the voice of the JLR service rep I can hear a man telling her what to say. I said why don't you let him talk to me. I also recorded the conversation and the mans directions are quite clear. Se denied he was advising her. I have replayed it a dozen times and in a quiet room his direction is clear. So this is why I have reacted the way I have. I have taken all of this to an attorney that deals with product liability. I make my money the old fashioned way so in the end the car will be gone and I will not loose any money. I wont gain any either. This car is a time bomb. It appears Bosch has replaced the injectors and is instructing them to be replaced with a new model.

 

Where exactly was the fire? What exactly caught on fire? How was the fire put out? How long did the fire last? Who put out the fire? If the fuel was coming out the rear, was the fire in the rear also? No fire marks around the gas marks on the floor? Wouldn't the puddles of fuel have caught on fire also? Wouldn't the tons of raw fuel in the exhaust have caught on fire? The gas tank is in that area also, isn't it?

 

******** UPDATE ************

So it appears Bosch has a new injector for these cars and they are only selling them in sets of six for the V6-S I don't know about the V8's.

It appears the directive is if there is a failure of any kind all six are to be replaced. A single injector out of pocket of the original design is $424.00 and change from my local dealer in MI.

The entire set of six is $1100.00.

So ask yourself why they are doing this???

It also appears these are being changed without the owners knowledge in many cases. Again ask yourself why?

Try and find the replacements. They are out of stock everywhere.

So for all the naysayers there clearly is an issue with this injection system.

So people do your homework and dig in if you own one. As I stated earlier I believe there are gremlins in the closet.

And I left this part out of my conversation with the JLR rep. She was being advised by a man in the background and he was telling her what to say and what questions to ask me. I told her to let me speak to the man in the background. She told me there was no male in the background. As I told her I was also recording the conversation. I have played this back a dozen times and the man is clearly telling her what to say. He is also telling her what questions to ask me. Why would they do this? Why did she lie about the man in the background and what was his role in this line of questioning?

So for the people that think I am overreacting, how many of you would let your wife who has English as a third language speak to someone clearly being advised by an attorney.

This whole conversation was about trying to mitigate damages. Very little to do with solving the problem with the car.

So my apologies to the moderator for using the word fools. I also have lots of friends in the Aussie land. My best friend is Australian. I worked extensively with a digital fuel pressure regulator made by some guys called FrankenCIS. So if you know them ask them about the guy in Michigan that modified the Bosch CIS system to deliver enough fuel for over 800 HP. Then ask them if this guy knows the difference between condensation and fuel.

Its appropriate for people here to make false accusations about me and the purpose of my posts. My posts are out of concern and warnings to other owners. I could care less about this car.

Really guys, do you think someone that buys performance vehicles does not know the difference between water condensation and RAW FUEL.

So I would say to the real owners beware of people that are on this board with the sole purpose of protecting the Jaguar Brand name. They are here for sure. And they drive Jaguars. That does not mean their posts are in the best interests of the everyday Jaguar owner.

I'm not trying to sell anything, I spoke about Porsche's because I never had one start a fire. I have had Detroit muscle, Ferrari, Maserati, and lots of GM Muscle cars. None of them ever poured this much fuel out having a very sophisticated fuel delivery and engine management system.

The reality is this is appearing to be a single point failure. Look up the injectors, do some google searching.

 

Thanks for your comments & hope you do get resolution. One question regarding the above portion of your quote as it appears that you have expertise...

Are you saying that the car that experienced this issue had been equipped with modifications by you... or were you just making this reference as a point of your knowledge/expertise?

 

This car is completely stock. My reference was for a Porsche engine that I put a supercharger on. It used the Bosch Mechanical fuel injection system called CIS. I took it apart down to the spool. Had a new spool manufactured and used a CNC EDM machine to make it deliver more fuel. The fuel regulator or WUR as they call it was designed by a couple guys at a place call Reanimotion in Australia. I was the first one to use it in that application. He was/is a big Mercedes racing guy.

I designed EDM and laser machines while attending college. I have been working with the manufacturing of fuel injector machines since the mid 80's.
The EDM process is has been used in Rocket engines and jet engines for a long time.

My point is that I am more than a car enthusiast. I have built some extremely high horsepower engines. In this case I built a stand and had the 911 engine running with the oil, fuel and electrical harness connected to the chassis. The engine was 15 feet behind the car. You sat in the car and all the instrumentation worked and you started the engine while setting in the car. I did this because once installed it was impossible to check for air leaks. I was pushing up to 22 PSI boost.

With that said I surely know the difference between condensation and fuel. A lot a guys drive these cars. Few are capable of taking one apart and putting it back together. Or removing a turbo and replacing it with a variable ratio crankshaft driven supercharger. I designed the electro/mechanical system for that whipple supercharger and the car was an animal. Over 800 HP rear wheel drive and no traction control. I did this and with Reanimotions help was able to significantly increase the fuel flow. In the end horsepower is always limited by fuel supply.

So I do have a lot of knowledge about cars and fuel management systems in general. My wife drove this car but now she is afraid of it. I hope this clears up peoples speculations. Call Reanimotion and speak to them if you don't believe the story. I spent many late nights with those guys due to the 14 hour time change in October 2016 perfecting this system. In Michigan some mornings it would be 0 degrees outside and this 800HP mechanical fuel injected monster started with less cranking than this new F-Type.

The last one was a complete rebuild using electronic fuel injection. Prior to these extremely high pressure mechanical pumps it was difficult to get these kind of volumes/pressures with even two electric fuel pumps.

This car uses a PWM electric fuel pump pushing low pressure hi volume fuel to the 2 cam driven mechanical fuel pumps. A lot going on. I am just as baffled how so much fuel can run thru this engine and fill the exhaust system and continue to run with no CEL. From my perspective if injectors fail which it appears they have the ECM didn't detect it. These cars are fully programmable. My guess is there is or will be a flash to the ECM to prevent this. If there is they are keeping quiet and didn't tell anyone. Same with the injectors. JLR is as transparent as Congress... If the fuel pressure on the rail falls so significantly the ECM should suspect a leak. Given we have RPM, TPS, MAF and MAP sensors we know what speed the engine is running. We also the PWM circuit driving the electric fuel pump is racing trying to keep up the volume. So you have to ask yourself why an engine idling at less that 1000 RPM is going thru so much fuel and where is it going. Given its combustibility it seems JLR missed a rather important failure mode. This is why I say its a failure of programming and subsystems. This should have been better evaluated hence my first statement about the Porsche being much more refined and battle hardened. This is ultimately a component failure followed by a colossal engineering failure.

So here's my assessment on the JLR fuel management system. The operation was a success but the patient died.

 

I think its time to close this thread...

 

Let me call JLR... It looks like I have fire everywhere, at the tailpipe, at the valves etc. LOL

 

He said:
With that said I surely know the difference between condensation and fuel. A lot a guys drive these cars. Few are capable of taking one apart and putting it back together. Or removing a turbo and replacing it with a variable ratio crankshaft driven supercharger.


I admit, I am mechanically ignorant about the F-Type because FOR SURE I am not capable of taking out a TURBO and replacing it. I have no idea of where the TURBO is on my car.

Let's close this thread, first he claimed that he got CEL codes, then he says his car dumps fuel out without any CEL. Then he claims that this happened while his wife left the car out running (the cats get to over 500 degrees quickly, gasoline ignition temp is 495). No evidence of any fire other than the usual soot. I don't understand the WHY of this thread but I see way too many inconsistencies and nonsense, not to mention that the OP seems to get way overworked over it. I suggest you keep up your efforts with JLR, thank you for your warning and we will all keep an eye out on our tailpipes and fuel gauge.

 

"I have no idea of where the TURBO is on my car."

In the front.

 

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I looked at all posts made by you in this forum. You did have a couple of posts some years ago regarding a mock up for the XJ220, but nothing more on the F-type.

Show us some pics of the result/damage of the fire, or it did not happen.

You haven't even documentet with pics that you have (or have access to) an F-type, in any of your posts on this forum.....

We have just as much reasons to be sceptical to your accusations toward JLR and the claims you make towards a faulty fuel system in the F-type, as you clearly say you are against JLR.

You don't believe them or their motives. Many here don't believe you and your motives.

You just keep on repeating your acusations, but fail 100% to deliver any kind of solid documentations - which you clearly could have, if you wanted and the story was true. You have allready documented that you did take pics, but the ones you have chosen to share with us, proves nothing.

 

Noooo...it's a trick question.

 

Lets assume good faith reporting by original poster and not what it looks like (trying to get rid of the car by manufacturing a problem and getting JLR buyback).

He mentioned injectors, and we do know that these occasionally fail. Could a failure of multiple injectors lead to fuel coming out of exhaust? I don't see how, but it doesn't mean it is impossible.

Lets say these injectors failed in a way that continuously dumping raw fuel and unburned fuel is getting dumped into exhaust. Lets say catalytic converters are cold and not burning it off. Could it actually make it to the tail pipe?