VelocityAP 200 cell DPs going on today
#1
07-05-2016, 05:35 PM
#4
07-07-2016, 12:34 AM
I can tell you now, that the car is LOUDer with the 200 cell pipes. I went WOT for brief periods on the drive home and had two guys in a 4Runner flip me off and yell "Jag-wires suck dude!!!". I guess I scared them with the noise lol.
I'll try to capture it on video on the dyno, but I doubt the effect will be the same. Now the quiet mode seems somewhat useful.
I'll try to capture it on video on the dyno, but I doubt the effect will be the same. Now the quiet mode seems somewhat useful.
#5
07-09-2016, 10:16 PM
Ryan
P.S. Do you have a tune + pulley?
Ryan
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mp51998 (07-10-2016)
#6
07-10-2016, 08:29 AM
Veteran Member
Regardless of the technique, it is virtually impossible to get accurate dyno results at the lower engine speeds with the AT because you can't apply full throttle without downshifting.
#7
07-10-2016, 08:44 AM
It is what it is, though. As much as I'd enjoy a manual trans in my F-Type, it just didn't out weigh my desire for the engine note that came with the V8. Different strokes for different folks...
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#8
07-10-2016, 09:02 AM
Veteran Member
It would be nice for a tuner to come up with a dyno test tune that would override the AT shift logic for this purpose.
#9
07-10-2016, 10:07 AM
With the right person behind the keyboard, it could be possible to flag a data bit from the steering angle sensor or ABS module to convince the TCM to suspend a downshift. I think manipulation of any of the inbound PCM data has the potential to influence fueling and/or timing.
#10
07-10-2016, 12:10 PM
My thought is most people are just pushing the throttle pedal to the floor and triggering the panic switch in the pedal. You can feel a click in the pedal when you trigger this switch, and if you only push the pedal to this point you still have 100% throttle but won't trigger a downshift. Even easier, this could be completely prevented if you just unplugged the pedal switch prior to putting the vehicle on the dyno.
#11
07-10-2016, 12:38 PM
I don't know why people keep saying this... Perhaps my car is different, but I can absolutely make a full throttle pull from 2k rpm in 4th gear without the vehicle downshifting. But I'll give Unhingd a pass for driving a manual transmission.
My thought is most people are just pushing the throttle pedal to the floor and triggering the panic switch in the pedal. You can feel a click in the pedal when you trigger this switch, and if you only push the pedal to this point you still have 100% throttle but won't trigger a downshift. Even easier, this could be completely prevented if you just unplugged the pedal switch prior to putting the vehicle on the dyno.
My thought is most people are just pushing the throttle pedal to the floor and triggering the panic switch in the pedal. You can feel a click in the pedal when you trigger this switch, and if you only push the pedal to this point you still have 100% throttle but won't trigger a downshift. Even easier, this could be completely prevented if you just unplugged the pedal switch prior to putting the vehicle on the dyno.
How are you determining you're at 100% throttle position before you feel that click? Are you using SDD? Believe it or not, you will see a power variance between the throttle blade being 90% open and 100%. I've got loads of data from another one of my vehicles on a few different dynos which tells that tale.
Yes, a pull can be started any RPM you would like but you won't be permitted to utilize 100% throttle until after 5K rpm. If you've got a log file that tells otherwise, I'd love to see it. Perhaps your car is exhibiting different behavior than mine.
Ryan
Last edited by Ryan23; 07-10-2016 at 12:46 PM.
#12
07-10-2016, 01:09 PM
Veteran Member
I don't know why people keep saying this... Perhaps my car is different, but I can absolutely make a full throttle pull from 2k rpm in 4th gear without the vehicle downshifting. But I'll give Unhingd a pass for driving a manual transmission.
My thought is most people are just pushing the throttle pedal to the floor and triggering the panic switch in the pedal. You can feel a click in the pedal when you trigger this switch, and if you only push the pedal to this point you still have 100% throttle but won't trigger a downshift. Even easier, this could be completely prevented if you just unplugged the pedal switch prior to putting the vehicle on the dyno.
My thought is most people are just pushing the throttle pedal to the floor and triggering the panic switch in the pedal. You can feel a click in the pedal when you trigger this switch, and if you only push the pedal to this point you still have 100% throttle but won't trigger a downshift. Even easier, this could be completely prevented if you just unplugged the pedal switch prior to putting the vehicle on the dyno.
#13
07-10-2016, 02:47 PM
Veteran Member
Yes, perhaps your car is different. You can't simply unplug the "pedal switch" because what you're referring to as the "panic switch" is part of the accelerator pedal position sensor. It's a two track potentiometer that tells the PCM where the throttle pedal is at. Disconnecting this sensor would render the accelerator pedal useless.
How are you determining you're at 100% throttle position before you feel that click? Are you using SDD? Believe it or not, you will see a power variance between the throttle blade being 90% open and 100%. I've got loads of data from another one of my vehicles on a few different dynos which tells that tale.
Yes, a pull can be started any RPM you would like but you won't be permitted to utilize 100% throttle until after 5K rpm. If you've got a log file that tells otherwise, I'd love to see it. Perhaps your car is exhibiting different behavior than mine.
Ryan
How are you determining you're at 100% throttle position before you feel that click? Are you using SDD? Believe it or not, you will see a power variance between the throttle blade being 90% open and 100%. I've got loads of data from another one of my vehicles on a few different dynos which tells that tale.
Yes, a pull can be started any RPM you would like but you won't be permitted to utilize 100% throttle until after 5K rpm. If you've got a log file that tells otherwise, I'd love to see it. Perhaps your car is exhibiting different behavior than mine.
Ryan
I don't know the accuracity of this throttle/brake logger though, but it shure displayes 100% throttle before the accelerator pedal activates the switch - also at lower rpms.
If that means that you are actually applying 100% power at the lower and mid rpms, I have no clue as I do not know if and how the electronic system might interfere?
#14
07-10-2016, 02:53 PM
Yes, perhaps your car is different. You can't simply unplug the "pedal switch" because what you're referring to as the "panic switch" is part of the accelerator pedal position sensor. It's a two track potentiometer that tells the PCM where the throttle pedal is at. Disconnecting this sensor would render the accelerator pedal useless.
Ryan
Ryan
And I used a OBD tool to look at throttle position while doing the pull. I can get a log if you like.
#15
07-10-2016, 02:58 PM
My assumption, though I don't work for jaguar, is that it's there so the customer can make a choice. If there wasn't some sort of feedback to the driver through the pedal, the customer could might be upset that the car downshifted when he/she didn't want it to. I know I would be; that's the whole reason to have the paddle shifters. I'm sure it was a compromise for the integration engineers at jaguar: allow the driver to have full control but still have auto downshift for emergency situations when the drive may not be thinking and just mashes the pedal to avoid an accident.
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Unhingd (07-10-2016)
#16
07-10-2016, 03:04 PM
Veteran Member
My assumption, though I don't work for jaguar, is that it's there so the customer can make a choice. If there wasn't some sort of feedback to the driver through the pedal, the customer could might be upset that the car downshifted when he/she didn't want it to. I know I would be; that's the whole reason to have the paddle shifters. I'm sure it was a compromise for the integration engineers at jaguar: allow the driver to have full control but still have auto downshift for emergency situations when the drive may not be thinking and just mashes the pedal to avoid an accident.
#17
07-10-2016, 03:29 PM
Do you have a connector #? The only connector I can see is the the APP, C2E901. It's a 6 wire connector that has the following signals:
VREF Supp #1 = Sensor reference voltage (Typically 5v)
Analogue output 1 = Varying voltage based on throttle input
Supp Ground 1 = Ground leg
Vref supp #2 = " "
Analogue output #2 " "
Supp Ground 2 " "
From our technical documentation:
The APP sensor allows the ECM to determine the driver requests for vehicle speed, acceleration and deceleration. The ECM uses this information, together with information from the ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) control module and the TCM (Transmission Control Module), to determine the setting of the electric throttle.
Three screws attach the APP sensor and integrated accelerator pedal to a bracket on the lower instrument panel. A six pin electrical connector provides the interface with the vehicle harness.
The APP sensor is a twin track potentiometer. Each track receives an independent power supply from the ECM and returns an independent analog signal to the ECM. Both signals contain the same positional information, but the signal from track 2 is half the voltage of the signal from track 1 at all positions.
If both signals have a fault, the ECM adopts a limp home mode, which limits the engine speed to 2000 rev/min maximum.
The ECM constantly checks the range and plausibility of the two signals and stores a fault code if it detects a fault.
In a nutshell, there are two sets of analog outputs relating to pedal position for redundancy purposes. So you wouldn't want to go pulling a pin from the APP.
Our white paper on the PCM inputs makes no mention of any sort of kickdown switch for the MY16 R. So I'm just a bit lost here.... what am I missing?
Ryan
#19
07-10-2016, 04:33 PM
#20
07-10-2016, 04:47 PM
Perhaps Stuart or Chris from Velocity AP can comment?
Last edited by cbroth1; 07-10-2016 at 04:53 PM.