The problem with dumbing it down is that without the support of validated data, all you are buying is the bragging rights to the statement that you have a stage I,II,III or IV tune. Dinan, at least provides some rudimentary data, but even in their case, they present the information in a way to impress those not technically inclined.

Simple graphs and tables (before/after) are the simplest way of presenting and comprehending air/fuel, horsepower and torque numbers. Few tuners provide that level of detail.

 

Precisely, and it is my understanding that Velocity AP is working hard at trying to compile a literal book of data/results for each of the F-Type variants. It seems Stuart and co. really starting pushing for contributors to their data collection on this forum just a few months ago, and as Stuart has chronicled on numerous occasions, the process requires the combined cooperation of the vehicle owner, a reliable dyno facility, and then getting copies of the actual before/after results, which thus far has proved somewhat elusive.

My sense is that Velocity has all the intentions of doing this exactly as it should be done, which includes publishing real data points... though more time is needed to gather more contributors and the corresponding data.

I am somewhere between polarisnavyxj and Unhingd on the need-for-details issue. I don't fully understand all the technical mumbo often shared on this topic, but I don't want or need the info dumbed-down either. I would love to do a lower pulley and tune to my 2015 R, however I am cautiously awaiting a few more stats from a somewhat larger segment of customers, all with glowing v8 results to become available. That and a bit more time to flush out any unintended problems before I pull the trigger. Which all serves to highlight the conundrum that good people like Stuart and Velocity AP are faced with. They need owners to come forward to contribute to their collection of data, yet I suspect there are many owners such as myself who want more data before taking the plunge.

However unfortunate it may be for Velocity AP and others, the debacle with VMax increased my desire to tread more carefully in this arena of aftermarket tuning.

 

But as the consumer, I be happy to have a table where I could compare HP/$ and get a clear indication as to the warranty implication then finally being a California registerant, finally know the smog ramifications.

I know the attempt has been made in different conversations but it would be great to have a stage I, II, III, IV type chart so I can make a clear personal choice as to what to spend, and in what order, and what I get for the money I spent. Further, for tech/mech dummies like me, it would be great to have on this same chart the approx. installation hours involved so we can get a true assessment of cost and or the level of dyi where appropriate. Now we'd be talking! Novices and even the most conservative of owners can make a clear choice as to how far to jump. It would greatly help Stuart as well as performance modding is like getting the first tattoo, once people get their feet wet, there's no stopping! Our group of owners just need the first push.

 

+1

 

I think you may have missed one of the primary points of my post right above yours. Velocity AP is not new to the concept of aftermarket tunes, nor are they novices with these engines, but for the F-type model in particular (and its unique combination of engine, ECU, boost variables, torque limits, etc) the vehicle simply has not been in production long enough for any tuner to perform their service on enough different cars and thereby collect sufficient data points to be able to compile the list you are seeking.

 

The part in bold above is already completely clear. If your car has been aftermarket tuned, and your engine suffers an internal mechanical failure, you will more than likely not be covered by warranty. Even if flashed back to stock, every manufacturer can easily locate evidence of a past tune by a forensic examination of the ECU, which they will do before approving an engine repair or new engine, free-of-charge.

Having said that, it's all the more reason to carefully evaluate whether the tuner has done his/her homework. Anyone with a laptop and some knowledge of how to alter ECU parameters can produce more power, but doing it safely introduces significantly more complexity. A reputable tuner will provide a safe performance enhancement that shouldn't significantly endanger the engine.

The rest of your warranty will not be affected. You'll still be covered on any system other than the engine, as long as you have not done an aftermarket mod to that system too.

If you find a tuner who tells you otherwise, that's an instant indication that they are not an informed or reputable tuner. In my view, that tuner cannot be trusted.

Tuners like Velocity appear to be trustworthy, and they have clearly acknowledged the above. They seem to be proceeding carefully to ensure that their JLR products are safe before they release them.

 

Our main concern right now is getting the dyno data to show what our software calibration can do, otherwise we're just another tuning company saying our software makes X power but have no raw evidence. We like to go the extra step, especially for the owners undecided between various different companies for a calibration.

On the 5.0 and 3.0, there's no need for 4,5,6+ different Stage files. Simply just a Stage 1, Stage 1+ (which allows a pulley), Stage 2(pulley and high flowing catalyst or O.R pipe). To create more Stages would mean I'd have to limit the Stage 1 file and not give everything availible on the table in stock form. (Which some companies do..I've seen it already from some reads on F-type that we helped re-tune.)

The VTech hand held we're now using keeps things simple(you get to keep the hand held). Being we're in a complete test phase on the 3.0 we do require input in different climates like we did the 5.0 till the file meets our criteria. The 3.0 file is ready for testing and by the looks of things will be dyno'd the next coming weekend. The 5.0 file is complete of testing, we're just missing the dyno sheet on the 5.0(working on it, but waiting on a local subject).

We're not a fly by night company, so anything we put our name on, we devote a huge amount of time into. We may over engineer the issue, but in the end it's so our clients can sleep at ease

 

Mike, great summary of the situation.

 

And that's the reason you need to have a way to flash back to your original (or last know good configuration), in case something goes awry.

Reason #1 I'm looking forward to Stuarts and Velocity's system.

 

Good point that it's good to have that as backup and can do it in your own garage. I'm looking forward to it as well.

 

+1 I want the pulleys and tune done as well but I also need to see more data. That V-Max thread shook me up a little too.

 

+2 Looking forward as well. Good Luck this weekend in the testing. Please keep the forum updated with the results.

 

It's not a problem. We've seen MOD files some other companies have put on these cars.

Our stuff stacks up VERY well.

 

I'm hoping it does very well this weekend with Finn and his car.


Finn,

Everything a go this weekend with your tuner and the programmer from Stuart? I'm anxiously awaiting the results and your feedback on the performance.

Thank you

 

As a base owner as well, look forward to the results

 

Stu...

when I said stage I II III IV, I didn't mean software versions, I meant like flash + exhaust, or flash + exhaust + pulley. etc. I think w/ Dinan, stage IV actually consisted of a turbo or a SC, I forget.

Forgive me if its been asked before but...

1. What about Cali smog (in which going back and forth between upgraded and oem flashes is a non issue)

2. Likelihood of a full blown forensic study on an blown engine if they have no reason to believe that the car was modded. (if the car was towed in with headers, pullies, racing slicks and aftermarket exhausts, I could see LRJ being suspicious and seeing if they had an out). I'm not familiar with previous cases you guys speak on. I know it's a gamble. But whats the risk? when our cars go off warranty, will your efforts then pay off?

 

Okay, so using some rough numbers (+/- a HP or 2) we have managed to put together from a couple of different dyno sessions. For a V8 (S, or R)

Stage 1: Tune = 605BHP
Stage 2: Above + Pulley = 625BHP
Stage 3: Above + 200 Cell Cats = 650BHP

If you so desire, you could run Tune + Cats with no pulley, would still be about the same as Stage 2 above.

California Smog I have had many Aston customer pass, having replaced primary and secondary cats with a 200 cell motorsport unit. The tuning & pulley stuff doesn't affect idle tailpipe emissions, and the 200 cell cats only slightly. As long as the car is good & hot going in the catalysts seem to be efficient enough at idle.

Bear in mind, the cats are technically a failure just for not having a CARB number. And I don't think switching back to OEM tune would affect the emissions testing, if anything would be worse due to running richer on the stock tuning. My best guess is that you would pass Cali emissions with any of these mods. The number one issue would be cat efficiency codes, which is something that we can switch off *for offroad use only*....

Warranty - yes, you should always be prepared that you might have warranty issues when modding cars. In my experience, exhaust, even catalysts are rarely an issue, unless you killed an O2 sensor or something, but nobody is going to refuse to replace a window regulator, even if you came in with slicks, nitrous and a ported blower.

ECU Tuning and pulleys are more of a grey area. That said, for example you could opt just to have Project 7 or SVR settings flashed onto a base V8S and I doubt you would get much pushback if you had an issue.

In my experience, Jag is one of the companies that doesn't argue too much about legitimate issues. I have in the past few years had a handful of customers who have had engine issues unrelated to modifications (oil starvation to mains, timing chain tensioners, and recently a customer of another tuning company who asked us to flash back to stock because of what turned out to be cam phasers.) To date, not one has had a warranty denial. So my impression is that JLR engines are relatively inexpensive for the manufacturer to replace, and that the general attitude is that if there are genuine warranty claims, to honour them rather than weasel out of them.

There's always going to be the exception that proves the rule, and ultimately you have to be prepared to accept some level of risk if you undertake aftermarket modifications. That said I feel that the low hanging fruit is generally within pretty safe limits.

 

Stuart, great explanation. Thank you! I look forward to your results on the V6.

 

Not happening with my car.

 

Well said. Info dummies can process. Just what I needed.

My car will be arriving on Friday to Cali and I'll need a smog test. Let me know if you need me to try testing for smog if you need Cali data for a flash. I have a three month temp reg so theres no rush to get a smog.