Originally Posted by Tuning@VelocityAP

Andi, you started communicating over email this weekend and now you've brought this to the forums. Unfortunately, I do not monitor the forum often and leave most replays done from sales, posting to the forum site is going to delay a response and solution from our technical team.

Nonetheless, lets bring everyone up to speed...

As mentioned in my email and I'll say it again. Regardless of what anyone else has sated..Our JLR TCU tune paired with our Engine tune bumps 500rpm...

The stock limit is indeed 6500rpm, it also has a "softcut" rpm limit that enables +200rpm if particular conditions are meet..which means 6500rpm+200rpm = 6700rpm on the stock tune.

Our early TCU tunes bumped to 7500rpm, but we decided after much testing that no power was left in that range in low gears to provide any benefits. Avoiding the need to short shift in lower gears to increase trap, the call was made to drop to the 7,000rpm range and cancel the softcut to 0rpm, that way 7k is the max possible under power.

There's also some calibrations that have the stock limiter set in all modes except Dynamic which is bumped to the 7k, that is because they were superseded versions that HPTuners did not have the option at the time to edit those map fields..aka, dynamic mode only had the rpm bump.

In reply to your concern of skipping gears, I informed you I don't understand your testing and I needed something more than what you proved of a quoted time taken to accelerate. Being you have one of our datalogger tools, I simply advised to record a datalog of your concern and I would investigate to see if the trans is indeed skipping gears and what could possible be related to you slower time.

Maybe it's my misunderstanding, but I really don't know what more you want me to offer you, to help resolve your concerns with our product.

Originally Posted by Tuning@VelocityAP

Our JLR TCU tune paired with our Engine tune bumps 500rpm...

Originally Posted by gearFX

Does the ECU tune alone (no TCU) modify the shift RPM or redline too? Or these changes only occur when adding the TCU?

Originally Posted by ToysARs

Is it possible to do TCU tune without ECU tune for the objective of increasing paddle downshift and upshift speeds/crispness without raising the rpm limits? Faster paddle downshifts and upshifts would be the only improvements I would want to have with the ZF8.

Originally Posted by Tuning@VelocityAP

Sure, it's totally possible. But you would need to note that request in the tuning submission form. (aka..to keep the rpm stock). Otherwise the tcu shift rpm request would be bumped to 7k by default.

Originally Posted by ToysARs

Just to confirm, TCU tune can be installed without the ECU tune as long as RPM limits are not changed, correct?

Originally Posted by Stuart@VelocityAP

At the moment we are increasing by 200RPM. Any time you push for more performance you can accelerate wear rate on your components, but we feel this is still pretty safe.

Originally Posted by Tuning@VelocityAP

The stock engine limiter is 6800rpm, the stock tcu limiter is 6500rpm (on the ZF8 cars).

With the above in mind; If I edited the file to raise the engine rpm to something like 10,000rpm, the TCU would still command a shift at 6,500rpm.

---Small advisory, there's certain calibration floating around from JLR that enables the paddle mode to bump off the limiter. Thar's because the limiter in the TCU file is set at 9,000rpm(in paddles only) while the engine is set to 6800rpm. In most of the JLR fleet, this is not the case though and the TCU will only allow 6500rpm to be reached.---

On another note, what I do in the engine tunes for the rpm limiter without the addition of a TCU tune, I raise the park/neutral limiter from 4,000rpm to 6800rpm. Not that we recommend revving the engine with no load, but if you wanted too, you could rev past 4k..

If the car was a manual shift like some of the 3.0L F-Type's, they obviously don't require a TCU tune and only editing the engine tune would allow for a higher rpm range.

Originally Posted by Tuning@VelocityAP

The stock engine limiter is 6800rpm, the stock tcu limiter is 6500rpm (on the ZF8 cars).

With the above in mind; If I edited the file to raise the engine rpm to something like 10,000rpm, the TCU would still command a shift at 6,500rpm.

---Small advisory, there's certain calibration floating around from JLR that enables the paddle mode to bump off the limiter. Thar's because the limiter in the TCU file is set at 9,000rpm(in paddles only) while the engine is set to 6800rpm. In most of the JLR fleet, this is not the case though and the TCU will only allow 6500rpm to be reached.---

On another note, what I do in the engine tunes for the rpm limiter without the addition of a TCU tune, I raise the park/neutral limiter from 4,000rpm to 6800rpm. Not that we recommend revving the engine with no load, but if you wanted too, you could rev past 4k..

If the car was a manual shift like some of the 3.0L F-Type's, they obviously don't require a TCU tune and only editing the engine tune would allow for a higher rpm range.

Originally Posted by gearFX

My calculus is rusty so I'm not qualified to compare "area under the curve" for the different dyno charts of ECU gains vs. TCU gains vs pulley gains, but is one of the 3 a "better" value (bang for buck wise), because it's offering the most performance in an accessible RPM range? (For example, I imagine a pulley alone or ECU alone may increase performance or power output across the meat of RPM range, but a TCU tune alone only buys you higher output otherwise not available but only for a few hundred RPM at the top end right?)

Also, is one on the 3 options considered to be "safest" from a reliability standpoint (in terms of exceeding original JLR design or engineering limitations the least)? Or how would you rank them 1,2 and 3 in this measure from a mechanical sympathy standpoint?

Originally Posted by Therock88

You can run the ECU Tune alone, or the TCU Tune, but you CANNOT run the Lower Pulley alone without an ECU tune, so that is not an option. Likely best bang for the buck is ECU tune alone, if you are looking at minimalist solution. I would think the TCU tune would be least likely to push the car to engineering limits ….Just an opinion. Depends a lot on your goals. Safest bet is to do nothing...then it is a continuum of performance and risk trade-offs.

I have them all, and I am happy with the setup. I do not spend time worrying about warranty or repair costs...I just mod and enjoy the cars. If something breaks, I can always throw enough money/time/effort to fix it.

DC

Originally Posted by ToysARs

@Therock88, than you for all the information you have provided on this thread based on your experience with these products. Just curious, do you have any videos of you dash after the TCU tune? I'm really curious about the manual/paddle downshift and upshift speeds compared to the stock car (especially downshifts as in stock form, manual downshifts seem to be a second lagged).

Originally Posted by EdG

Posting to this tread but there might be a better one. I have a 2016 V6S with TCU tune along with crank pulley and ECU tune after the TCU tune (burble/pop checked). No issues in Dynamic mode, sport setting with paddle shifts, very fast and crisp with occasional burbles on up shifts, down shifts also fast (near perfect).

My issue is when in Dynamic mode, S setting allowing the car to shift itself, burbles more dramatic but seems like too much after the first gear or two. The shifts and burbles seem to take too long. Particularly around 75 MPH can be slow, too many burbles. Passing a truck earlier this week, the shift around 75 had several seconds of burbles, enough that I needed to let off the gas because it wouldn't shift. It makes me reluctant to push the car in this setting. I assume that the I can get a different tune. Just curious if my experience is unique. Not sure if I would need a new TCU or just a modified ECU tune.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by EdG

My issue is when in Dynamic mode, S setting allowing the car to shift itself, burbles more dramatic but seems like too much after the first gear or two. The shifts and burbles seem to take too long. Particularly around 75 MPH can be slow, too many burbles. Passing a truck earlier this week, the shift around 75 had several seconds of burbles, enough that I needed to let off the gas because it wouldn't shift. It makes me reluctant to push the car in this setting. I assume that the I can get a different tune. Just curious if my experience is unique. Not sure if I would need a new TCU or just a modified ECU tune.

Originally Posted by scm

Since the noise happens at higher revs, telling the car you want dynamic and S is giving it a clear message to use those higher revs, hence the noise you seem not to want. If you want it quiet, why use dynamic and S?

Originally Posted by EdG

Sorry, I wasn't clear. It's not the noise that is the problem. It is that the car is not shifting while making all the noises.

Originally Posted by Therock88

I am not sure what "burbles" means? I have not had any issues with mine shifting in any modes.

DC

Originally Posted by EdG

Are the shifts just as fast when using the paddles as when allowing the car to shift itself? Near full throttle the shifts are considerably faster when using the paddles compared to when the car is shifting on it own (i.e. not using the paddles). It tends to be highway speeds, particularly in the 70s MPH. I would like the shifts to be just as fast regardless if I am using paddles or not.

BTW. I can't remember what the VAP website calls it but I am referring to the box you check when getting the ECU tune that requests the noises that may damage the catalytic converters, but that is what I mean by the "burbles".