You have the pulley sizes so you can work out the rpm of the supercharger with the different combinations.

There is an efficiency chart in this file TVS Supercharger - Eaton

What are the rpms?

 

At 6000 engine rpm, 22% overdrive will be twisting the SC at 18000 rpm instead of 15000 rpm (still at 60% isentropic efficiency).

 

Agreed, unless you're after every last hp or lb/ft the lower is the way to go on the V6 cars.

We have tuned many cars in the UAE, Qatar, K.S.A., Bahrain, Turkey, etc. We know your fuel profiles as well as your climate. Are you closer to Abu Dhabi or Dubai? We have remaps for 97 and 98 RON in the UAE specifically, thankfully you don't have the particulate issue K.S.A. does.

Sure thing. As soon as I finish posting responses in our threads I'll hop to it.

Yes sir, please keep them coming!

Correct, thank you for posting the math. We believe those that wish to run both the +1.8psi upper and +20mm lower should also be running our LTs and X pipe which will drop boost levels, lower EGTs, and a host of other ECU timing modifiers. As you know the largest issue to avoid when spinning a blower faster is heat, the plan is to mitigate the increase in ECT, EGT, and BDTs with hardware modifications, allowing the blower to spin faster without any detrimental effects to the entire system.

Additionally, we have tested the +10mm lowers with the 1.8psi uppers and have seen no ECU related boost bleed. The Dodge Hellcats for example...The ECUs detect increased boost levels (moderately to largely increased boost, not a minor bump as from an upper only) and bleed it via their VCT. We already have modified VCT profile remaps to use in case we see this issue with the 1.8s paired with the +20mm crank pulleys, but are hoping it's not an issue. If so a simple reflash will cure the problem.

Finally as we have shared with a few forum members the final piece of the bolt-on package will help significantly with regard to blower discharge temps. It will work just as well on the V6 cars as the V8s.

 

We'll post this and more additional info when we return from our informal vacations on the 4th. Even with our most aggressive pulley combination we aren't going to overspin the SC.

For those that want extra piece of mind or simply want to customize their modifications, we can always do one off lower crank pulleys (+11-19mm). Not cost effective, but easily done.

 

Can you share with us what that final piece might be?

 

We'll publicly post as soon as they are ready to ship, with a requisite solo or package GB to accompany it. PM otw. Apologies if this offends anyone but we're sinking some coin into R&D for these cars and we have to do what is necessary in the R&D stages. Thank you for your understanding.

 

I would be interested for this pulley in the range of $200 to $300 dollars, not $1000+. No insult intended, but your price is significantly too high for consideration as one could be easily custom made for much less as a one off. For comparison, another popular tuning company sells their upper pulley for $150 dollars, which is a reasonable price. You need to come down a lot. I like the idea of the lower pulley, but I'd much sooner make my own for $500 than pay $1000 for yours. Food for thought.

 

Please keep in mind OEM Jaguar crank pulleys plus an OEM crank bolt will cost you over $420 (that's what we paid when ordering the initial 5 we played around with). Upper pulleys are significantly more simple both in design and purpose, we sell ours for $150 as well. You're comparing apples to oranges. Take a look at what other positive displacement supercharged European lower crank pulleys cost and you'll find our pricing (for an especially small market, with an even smaller demographic that modifies their cars than any other make less Maserati) to be more than fair.

No offense taken, please take none from this statement: A $500 crank pulley will end up costing exponentially more when you replace the longblock after a few hundred miles.

If you think you can make a custom lower crank pulley for $500 by all means do so.

Thank You
VMax

 

I highly suggest you start from scratch with your design. A pulley is not that complex in its entirety, and when you're starting with a $420 hole before you've even started designing your product you're not doing anyone any favors. At this bracket I'd rather have a company who makes custom pulleys make the product for me for less. I've looked into this in the past.

 

Thank you for your suggestion.

If you buy 50 ATI (arguably the best crank damper/pulley manufacturer on the market) will make you a pulley to their specs (not yours) and you'll pay $750 per minimum.

We use the OEM crank pulley to as a base for several reasons, two of the most important are the mass and fitment. Even if you send ATI an OEM crank pulley to aid in design of a clean sheet pulley it will take them 2-3 tries just to nail the diameter facing the block.

You can spend all day Googling stories of custom or clean sheet lower crank pulleys shearing keyways, flying off the engine itself, causing PtV and necessitating a new or rebuilt longblock. We'd rather avoid that and have actually tested our design before releasing the product for sale to the public.

If you're basing your assumed cost off parts cost from your experience in the Asian market, you're wasting your time, there is no correlation whatsoever due to the market size differential.

Here's an example of a Mercedes Benz lower crank pulley made by a popular and respected MB tuner, note the cost and the fact it works on cars built from MYs 2003-2006: Weistec M113K Modular Crank Damper, 180mm - Supercharger Crank Pulley - 2003-2006 (W211 / M113K) - E 55 - E - Products

Now take into account there are hundreds if not thousands of modified 55K AMG's running pulleys on the road. We would be lucky to move 50 total +10mm and +20mm crank pulleys combined.

Thank You
VMax

 

I've got to agree that ~1k$ range is too much. For 300-500$ for a lower pulley I'd be interested, and if this pulley does indeed work for the entire range of Jaguar 5.0 engines then that opens up (albeit small) market quite a bit. (Land rover, xk,xf,xj, etc.)

 

I'm not sure what numbers or similar products you're using to base your expected price off of? Have you ever purchased a lower SC crank pulley for $300-$500?

Please link me to a similar product in a similar market that's anywhere near $300-$500.

Thank You
VMax

 

I don't think this is really a good example. This is obviously a far superior unit to stock, and still I would consider it overpriced. Unless you're planning on removing 4 pounds of rotating mass from the crank, lets not compare your unit to something superior.

That being said, if you're planning to only sell 50 of these things, perhaps you should figure out a new marketing plan. This engine is used all over the place in V6 and V8 form, so I don't know why you think its such a small market. Even if you only focus on the V8, that's still the F type, XF, XK, XJ, Range Rover and Range Rover Sport.

That being said, here's a $500 example of a Hellcat overdrive damper. There are significantly less of those engines out there than AJ133s. This is much more reasonable and something I would consider.

ATI Super Damper Harmonic Balancer, 10% Overdrive (2015+ Supercharged 6.2L HELLCAT Charger & Challenger) - 918485

 

How do you know it's far superior to the OEM pulley? How many documented failures have you seen with either?

Superior is a relative term based on your wants/needs and personal biases. You may call the linked 55K/M113K pulley superior because it's clean sheet and pretty, I call our design superior because we know it works.

Perhaps you should test the market on any of the LR forums to see just how many owners modify their vehicles beyond aftermarket mud flaps or bike racks. There aren't many. Again, of all European brands Jag/LR owners have traditionally modified their cars less than any other Euro brand other than Maserati owners. These numbers come from over a decade of ECU tuning sales records of all Euro makes/models.

Josh (the owner of HHP and good friend) buys by the 100 and has sold over 70 pulleys already for Hellcats. Hellcat owners are essentially the antithesis of Jag/LR owners, the majority of them modify their cars. Yes I just texted him for those numbers.

Something you may have missed. You need to purchase the $1600 PCM tool/email tune from them to run this pulley. Add on the options we include (crank bolt and if necessary with the +20mm a larger belt) and the price jumps to $2178.85 for this mod.

So again, we appreciate the input, and wish you the best of luck designing, manufacturing, testing and selling your own lower crank pulley for the AJ Series III SC V8s.

Thank You
VMax

 

Weight loss sir. Significant weight loss.

1.) You could use any tune that allows customization of the right parameters, so you are by no means locked in to their tune. 2.) To get any real benefit, we'd have to use your tune or someone else's anyways. Part to part, they're vastly cheaper. If you want to continue your route and market these for $1000-1300, that's your prerogative, but I won't but a customer. That's all I'm saying. You're looking for market research here aren't you?

 

Larger lower crank pulleys are on offer from various suppliers to suit the older 4.0L and 4.2L Jags and Land Rovers, they are all around the $1000 mark.

Some of them are good, some not so great. But that's what they sell for.

 

I would rank fitment far ahead of any kind of weight loss. There are places to save mass, and places to leave it be. You can read for yourself how many aluminum crank pulleys that saved a few lbs had tolerance issues after reaching operating temperature and being driven hard. I don't have to make this stuff up.


The Trinity T1000 OBD tool all Diablo Tuners use lists for $720 but can be had for around $465 on Amazon and $385 via WDs. $2178-$465 (removing the handheld OBD tuner from the equation, giving your argument every benefit of the doubt) = at least $1713 that a Hellcat owner ends up paying for an email tune and crank pulley, bolt and belt. Shop around for quality Hellcat tuning (HHP is the current market leader) and a similar pulley and you'll find cost to be at the $1000 mark for a vehicle with such modifications--and that's if the tuner in question knows how to work around the ECU boost bleed issues.

Insider secret: Tuners love packages because they can manipulate (appear to charge less) the list price of hardware and compensate by upcharging the software. Hellcats are ~$65-70K cars and by comparison are tuneable with a calculator and duct tape--Diablo makes it that easy.

Our GB pricing on F Type R (~$115-135K cars) ECU tuning plus the lower pulley will be right on par with what Hellcat owners are paying. I guess I don't see how one can complain about cost, as Combo pointed out, we are hardly raising the bar in this regard, and honestly, I wouldn't put a $300-$500 crank pulley on a Honda.

I wouldn't say we're here for market research, we're a bit beyond that as we are trying to figure out how many of each pulley to make. Your pledge to not purchase our pulley at the price point presented is duly noted, and again thank you for your opinion.

Thank You
VMax

 

Over at the BMW forums this is referred to as the ///M tax. I guess over here we can call it the F tax. I've had a few supercharged fords and I'm sure Metco could make an afFordable pulley.

 

Metco has sold and will sell a hundred pulleys for the Terminators, GT500s and aftermarket PD blown Stangs for every 1 we will for an AJ Series III SC V8. The market size, build numbers, and percent of owners that modify their Jags is simply not comparable to the Mustang market, same goes for Camaros and Vettes.

As much as I wish it wasn't so the laws of economics rule the automotive aftermarket as they do every other genre of business.

If you really want your head to explode take a look at the Capristo Exhaust thread. Their system doesn't even include LT headers or a measurable HP/TQ gain but sells at $9400 for what is simply a louder version of the OEM exhaust--actually the OEM X pipe placement is more conducive to power and torque production than Capristo's.

That sir is the "J" tax. I wouldn't think bringing a tested new product to market at a similar price point (moderately less expensive at the GB price) as existing products would make such waves.

Regardless, we appreciate your feedback and wish you the best.


Thank You
VMax

 

OK, must be a bit slow here... seen it used a dozen times now and still can't figure it out. What is "GB" short for?

An awful lot of acronyms and industry specific lingo being tossed out in this thread. You might just sell 20% more of these upgrades if you talk to your customer rather than your engineer. Rule #1 of effective sales... lol