F-Type ( X152 ) 2014 - Onwards
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Who moved from a porsche to a f type?

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  #181  
Old 04-08-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Matttheboatman
The 981 model Cayman S is nearly the perfect sports car. I started with a 2014, then got a 2015 Cayman GTS, then a 2016 GT4. All great cars, and even better track cars. But, I am exceedingly happy with the Jag F-Type R.

The Jag is pretty, sounds so much better, and the reaction from people who see the Jag on the street is ridiculous. My wife says she hates all the teen-aged boys giving her the thumbs up. And, the neighbors who tell her they know when she is leaving for work. For those reasons in particular, I LOVE IT!
LOL...thanks for the feedback but I don't base my decision on what peoples reactions are to the car I drive.
 
  #182  
Old 04-08-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jake ok
Jag slightly heavier than the lotus? LOL...like apples and grapes, what are you smoking.
Hahaha.... Obviously the Jag is heavier (approx 500-600lbs) & the Lotus handled like a go cart for grown ups. But after 3 years of Lotus ownership & when looking at a possible replacement for the same $$$ value, I feel the F-type is much more luxurious, more aggressive in styling, much more practical as a daily driver, comparable in fun factor department ,just as unique, and I am hoping.... slightly more reliable from a point of dealership & manufacturing product support. I loved & enjoyed my Lotus very much, but compared to the Jag - it’s a toy!
 
  #183  
Old 04-08-2018, 09:21 PM
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Ive had three different Porches, all of them 987’s, 6 speed, 6 cylinders. I owned a Boxster S, Cayman R and a Spyder. I’m a huge fan of these cars, they are sports cars, whereas the F-Type is a brutish GT. The Cayman R became my track day hero, fitted with mono ball suspension, carbon seats and Heigle half cage, 6 point harness and some crazy Trofeo tires. Even with that, it remained a great road car.

the 987 cars are great fun, but do suffer from a slightly long second gear, they also lack that big punch of power. But that’s what made them such a great tool for honing real drivers skills. You had to listen and plan ahead.

These cars are all a part of my love for light weight, and that continued with the a telepathic Lotus 211 (sequential quaife trans, dry slumped, 290 rwhp, 1680 lbs) and the smile inducing but wildly impractical Alfa 4C (my first non manual sports car). The Lotus was only good at the track, the Alfa was a huge grin machine, but didn’t even have a glovebox, so imagine how often I used it on roads.

Those cars are all better if you are looking for the true “Sportscar” experience or are seeking a track day hero. They are lighter, have better enthusiast support and are easier to place on a track.

But that’s not really what the Jaguar F-Type is all about. It is a car that is capable of devastatingly quick track times, but it wasn’t designed with the track in mind (power trunk, power heating vents??). This is a car that is more like my Aston Martin V8 and V12 Vantage’s. This is a road car, and that’s why I love it.

The reality is so many cars have amazing lap times, but are either useless or dull at road speeds. I owned an Audi R8V10 that was as quick as the Jaguar F-Type R, 2/3’s as good looking, and 1/2 as exciting on the roads. To get the Audi to make some noise and be exciting, you had to be comfortable with the idea of going to jail. Not so in the Jaguar.

The Jag slots itself right between the V8 and V12 Astons I previously owned. It’s more special than the V8 Vantage and not quite as special as the rare 6 speed V12 Vantage. The packaging is similar, you sit low with a high dash and a lively rear end. All made a killer sound. The V8 Vanatage the naturally aspirated V8 Hero, the V8 SC Jaguar the demented Rottweiler and the V12 the angry Thoroughbred. But the Jag is more useable, and in some ways better finished.

The Astons were only driven on occasions, the Jag has been designed to make normal drives an occasion. The truth is this is the kind of car we actually need in North America, were ten tenths is a fantasy.
 
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  #184  
Old 04-08-2018, 11:01 PM
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Stuck with Porsche for 25 years. Bought the V6-S after one drive. Having it nearly burn my house to the ground its evident that Porsche is much more refined as I originally believed. I was ooohed and ahhhd by the lines and the styling. Now I am disgusted looking for answers as to how this can happen with the high tech ECU Jaguar is using on these engines. So for all the real enthusiasts, give these things a couple years and see how they do. This one was under 20k miles. I haven's seen too many over 40k but there are grumblings in the woods..... I bought my very first Porsche in the 80's with over 50k miles. Added another 50 and only did routine maintenance.
 
  #185  
Old 04-08-2018, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by awjens
Stuck with Porsche for 25 years. I bought my very first Porsche in the 80's with over 50k miles. Added another 50 and only did routine maintenance.
LOL Guess you never heard about all the catastrophic engine failures on porsches due to IMS bearings melting. A mere $12000 engine replacement. Or BMW with their rod bearings, vanos, or throttle actuator failures. No brand is fool-proof, but the jag F type has been pretty solid for most on here.

Perhaps you should work on resolving the problem rather than posting unsubstantiated tripe on the boards...
 
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  #186  
Old 04-08-2018, 11:32 PM
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Fortunately I stuck with the turbo's and those engines were produced in a different facility. I heard about plenty of failures and every manufacturer has them. A IMS failure and a fire are two completely different things. Starting your car and leaving it for a few minutes to warm up shouldn't be a problem. With this car it was. That is a SERIOUS problem. The car was inside the garage. $12000.00 for an engine would be cheap compared to the total loss it would have been at freeway speeds or the house it nearly took with it. That never occurred with any Porsche I ever owned and there have been plenty. This was a garage kept, low mileage weekend car mostly driven by my wife. My turbo's were tracked.
 
  #187  
Old 04-09-2018, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by awjens
Stuck with Porsche for 25 years. Bought the V6-S after one drive. Having it nearly burn my house to the ground its evident that Porsche is much more refined as I originally believed. I was ooohed and ahhhd by the lines and the styling. Now I am disgusted looking for answers as to how this can happen with the high tech ECU Jaguar is using on these engines. So for all the real enthusiasts, give these things a couple years and see how they do. This one was under 20k miles. I haven's seen too many over 40k but there are grumblings in the woods..... I bought my very first Porsche in the 80's with over 50k miles. Added another 50 and only did routine maintenance.
Details needed. Year and model please.
 
  #188  
Old 04-09-2018, 06:23 AM
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I watched my employer' new mid 80's Porsche 944 go up in flames in a parking lot from some type of wiring glitch.
 
  #189  
Old 04-09-2018, 06:57 AM
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Whenever I am running in from the garage asking my wife where the fire extinguisher is, she now knows that it's not a rhetorical question.
 

Last edited by Unhingd; 04-09-2018 at 07:00 AM.
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  #190  
Old 04-09-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by awjens
Stuck with Porsche for 25 years. Bought the V6-S after one drive. Having it nearly burn my house to the ground its evident that Porsche is much more refined as I originally believed.
Owned 5 x 911's myself including the legendary 993 Turbo. They are indeed great cars but they suffer their issues too.

Starting with 993 wiring loom issues that plagued the car for years - led to all sorts of electrical problems including cars not turning off and possible fire risk (I had mine replaced):
https://www.pca.org/tech/199596-993-...ss-recall-w301

Valve guide wear - I had mine replaced on my 993 Turbo at significant cost (and under 40k miles):
993 Valve Guide Wear ? Instant-G

Clutch slave cylinders needing to be replaced - on a very very high percentage of cars:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...e_cylinder.htm

That's just a few examples - the wiring loom being the most serious.
 
  #191  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by awjens
...Bought the V6-S after one drive. Having it nearly burn my house to the ground its evident that Porsche is much more refined as I originally believed. I was ooohed and ahhhd by the lines and the styling. Now I am disgusted looking for answers as to how this can happen with the high tech ECU Jaguar is using on these engines. So for all the real enthusiasts, give these things a couple years and see how they do. This one was under 20k miles...
Sorry to hear of your troubles. Definitely sounds frustrating but also appears to be an isolated anomaly as yours is the only one any of us have heard of having anything like this occur. So, a few more details needed for the view public (this forum) if you might care to indulge us: It sounds like you bought the v6-S used, right? If you bought it used, it is certainly possible that the prior owner may well have "fiddled" with the wiring. You see people on here talking about upgrading their audio systems, wiring in backup camera's with after-market options, etc. Any of which could have well created the fire hazard. Now, if you bought it new and you, yourself didn't make any such changes then yours is the first most of us have heard of such an occurrence.

Related experience: A friend of mine was "into" MB's back in the '80s. He was also into modding them & had gone through 2 or 3 used ones when he bought a newer model & it caught on fire just sitting in the school parking lot one day during class. He was pissed and started to bad-talk the newer MGs. Naturally his insurance or parents bought him another one to replace it and... the same thing happened to the new car at a public tennis court about 2 weeks after he got it. Insurance rejected his claim the second time saying that it HAD to be something he did. He claimed he didn't do anything to the new car he hadn't done to the other 4 (Stereo upgrade mostly and some "driving lights").

I don't recall all the details but it turned out that one of the components (a capacitor or similar) was failing of those add-ons due to the 3rd-party company cutting corners so even though he had installed the same stuff in all the prior ones and knew what he was doing (he didn't create the short himself), the components were the issue so it can happen to anything that is modified (due to either the components or the human monkey performing the re-wiring).

Originally Posted by awjens
I bought my very first Porsche in the 80's with over 50k miles. Added another 50 and only did routine maintenance.
The prior owner of the Porsche was wise enough not to mess with it which may be a simple explanation that it may not really be a vehicle manufacturing issue
 

Last edited by ndabunka; 04-09-2018 at 10:56 AM.
  #192  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:24 PM
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This car while running pumped large volumes unburnt fuel thru the engine. It was running from the exhaust pipe. It was still running when the fire occurred. The CEL was NOT on. It only came on after a restart. this has nothing to do with wiring this is a fuel/engine problem. It is 100% stock. No modifications. There is clearly a problem with the fuel delivery system and the vehicle continued to run with no CEL. I can only imagine how much fuel remained the the rest of the exhaust system. After reading a bit I understand this has two mechanical fuel pumps and a lot of electrical systems operating it. Including a PWM circuit driving the electrical fuel pump in the gas tank. For those of you that don't understand, this is Pulse Width Modulated. I am a PE and have been designing sophisticated electro/mechanical systems for over 30 years with a large majority of that in the defense industries. This is a series of failures, not just one. I am two things, disgusted and saddened by this. I loved this car. Now I do not trust it. It has a serious design flaw that allowed this to occur and continue running. If enough sensors are "out of range" and the ECM cannot reliably determine the AFR and the PWM circuit is running like a racehorse fuel is going somewhere. As a designer I would have to say where is it going and shut it down very similar to a shutdown in the event of an accident.

this is a 2014 V6-S
 
  #193  
Old 04-10-2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by awjens
This car while running pumped large volumes unburnt fuel thru the engine. It was running from the exhaust pipe. It was still running when the fire occurred. The CEL was NOT on. It only came on after a restart. this has nothing to do with wiring this is a fuel/engine problem. It is 100% stock. No modifications. There is clearly a problem with the fuel delivery system and the vehicle continued to run with no CEL. I can only imagine how much fuel remained the the rest of the exhaust system. After reading a bit I understand this has two mechanical fuel pumps and a lot of electrical systems operating it. Including a PWM circuit driving the electrical fuel pump in the gas tank. For those of you that don't understand, this is Pulse Width Modulated. I am a PE and have been designing sophisticated electro/mechanical systems for over 30 years with a large majority of that in the defense industries. This is a series of failures, not just one. I am two things, disgusted and saddened by this. I loved this car. Now I do not trust it. It has a serious design flaw that allowed this to occur and continue running. If enough sensors are "out of range" and the ECM cannot reliably determine the AFR and the PWM circuit is running like a racehorse fuel is going somewhere. As a designer I would have to say where is it going and shut it down very similar to a shutdown in the event of an accident.

this is a 2014 V6-S
Thanks for the clarity on the cause. Since you didn't say that you bought it new, it sounds like the prior owner may have been aware of a problem before he sold it to you. Hopefully you have recourse on that avenue if warranted.

One question about the fuel delivery. It sounds like you are saying that un-burnt fuel was passed through the engine to the exhaust or is there some separate delivery mechanism that delivers fuel directly into the exhaust? I have heard that the pops and crackles may be possible from excess fuel making it to the exhaust but never considered it to be directly injected. I guess I am just trying to understand the details you are aware of due to the problems you experienced.

First year cars like yours can be notorious for problems and I don't think any of us here have heard of this happening to anyone else so perhaps this complication was isolated to your car due to it's early production. Perhaps trying a newer model may give you back confidence in the F-Types.

Note: One thing that is KNOWN about these cars is that you WILL see water condensation coming from the exhaust. It's a by-product of the exhaust system and does occur for short trips and may leave drips on the garage floor. A fair number of us have experienced this but in our cases, it's not fuel. Since your's caught on fire, it doesn't appear to be your case but others have experienced the oily-looking drips. Not really happy about them but they also don't seem to occur if you take certain steps (like longer drives and make certain to completely warm up the engine prior to driving off).
 

Last edited by ndabunka; 04-10-2018 at 12:17 AM.
  #194  
Old 04-10-2018, 09:15 AM
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I have had this car for 8 months. A PPI was done. There were no issues with this car for 8 months. I know the person that owned it before me personally. It is my understanding the fuel delivery system is unchanged from 2014-current.

This is large amounts of unburnt FUEL running from the exhaust, I collected a couple ounces in a jar and RAN MY GENERATOR WITH IT. Hardly condensation.

It appears this is a single point failure, unfortunately one that the rest of the fuel delivery system failed to detect. Because it hasn't been reported on this board does not mean it hasn't happened. I can understand mechanical failures, they happen. One that leads to this result is unacceptable.
 
  #195  
Old 04-10-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by awjens
I have had this car for 8 months. A PPI was done. There were no issues with this car for 8 months. I know the person that owned it before me personally. It is my understanding the fuel delivery system is unchanged from 2014-current.

This is large amounts of unburnt FUEL running from the exhaust, I collected a couple ounces in a jar and RAN MY GENERATOR WITH IT. Hardly condensation.

It appears this is a single point failure, unfortunately one that the rest of the fuel delivery system failed to detect. Because it hasn't been reported on this board does not mean it hasn't happened. I can understand mechanical failures, they happen. One that leads to this result is unacceptable.
Thanks for the additional background & sorry to hear of your challenges. Please do let us here on the forum know of how it progresses and the final resolution once you get to that stage as well as any other incidents like this (on forums or otherwise).
 
  #196  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:50 AM
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I thought I'd add some color after reading the first couple of pages...

First - I went from an XKR to a 911 C2S. LOVED the jag and the switch was more due to the dealer damaging my car and being emotionally done with the brand after having to take them to court (and I won 3x damages @ retail btw).

Jag was never meant to compete with Porsche. I mean look how heavy it is and Jag doesn't care. That's why there are frivolous amounts of superfluous things like mechanical vents. Those motors ad weight - just one example. The media has pitted it against Porsche because Porsche is THE benchmark for sports cars - Just like an M3 will always be THE standard in 4 door sport sedans. They really can't be compared.

The Jag is objectively prettier - as objective as looks can be. The 911 isn't exactly a good looking car... but the F Type is no XKR IMO The Jag is a luxury muscle car that can be hustled around corners but this skillset will never come close to that of a Porsche. Oversteer is a primary trait of the Jag although much better than the first batch. The Jag competes more with Aton IMO and is better objectively in every quantifiable way. It's not handmade so like a Seiko( A nice Gran one) outperforming a Rolex...

The Jag and Porsche both solicit very different emotions and personalities and are very exceptional in their own rights.

Power is also VERY different and one of the reasons I love my 911. It's pretty heavily modified but still has relatively no torque. BUT, the thing revvs to no end and I can control it MUCH better - especially given the 1K pound weight difference. The Jag just wasn't fun on back roads with the blown 5.0 torque and uncontrollable oversteer - again, much improved on new jags and especially AWD. Like the styling, power delivery is likely a personality you like or dislike. the new Porsches have a lot more low end with the turbos but not even close to the Jag still.

I mis my old Jag every time I drive to the mountains but once I'm there.... the 911 is king.
 
  #197  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF
718 uses speaker to make engine noises, just ask them and they could make it sound (on the inside) just like F-type.
Fake news. Porsche uses a mechanical symposer that you can plug if you like but the sound is actually that of the car and not through the speakers. Unlike my 528 M sport that sounds like an M5 on the inside (or mustang rather:/ ). Jag is dumb for this since the exhaust sounds so good.

Also - interesting observation... Porsches newer than 2012 all have a lot of pops and burbles. I believe this follows the sound that the XKRS exhibited and took the car world by storm.
 

Last edited by R_Rated; 04-11-2018 at 12:24 PM.
  #198  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by R_Rated
The Jag just wasn't fun on back roads with the blown 5.0 torque and uncontrollable oversteer.
Unless we are talking classic 911 turbo with its snap-oversteer, there is no such thing as uncontrollable oversteer.
 
  #199  
Old 04-11-2018, 03:31 PM
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I currently own a 964 and did consider the cayman S vs the F type. I truly feel that the F- Type is the best bang for your buck within the $60-70k msrp (looks, speed, fun, and size).
 
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF
Unless we are talking classic 911 turbo with its snap-oversteer, there is no such thing as uncontrollable oversteer.
Agreed even the 3.2 Carrera's are a handful once the pendulum has broken loose!

I have a V8S (RWD) and yes it can be easily provoked into oversteer - its not uncontrollable though.
 


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