Albert,
It's not any one thing, as I'm sure you know, but cumulative.

I can't speak to a Lambo, but I recently had cause to swap the wheels on my '71 Stag. They are 13" featherweights compared to the 20" wheel with more (therefore heavier) rubber wrapped round it on the F-Type. I stood back and looked at the two cars, and thought about all the other differences.

The battery must weigh at least twice as much as the Stag battery as it is vast, and uses denser materials. There are two batteries - the second one supports ancillaries during eco stops - the Stag has no such need (it cuts out when it feels like it, or when I forget to adjust the choke!). The seats are fully electric with lots of heating elements, and electric motors compared to a simple lever pull on the Stag. There are airbags everywhere, which may have gotten smaller, but not lighter over the years. The top has another array of motors to drive it. The engine has a supercharger bolted to it, and a huge alternator to charge those two batteries, and power all those electronics. The radiator is heavier because there is more heat to disperse. There are dense electronic control modules tucked into every corner. Lighting systems that do more than emulate fireflies... Motors to move the door handles and that vent thingy in the middle of the dash. Sensors for the parking control system. Catalytic converters. Exhaust gas recirculation probably. The glass is laminated (two layers, twice as heavy), with a heating element in it. I could go on much longer...

This is the price we pay, today, for the safer, cleaner, more fuel efficient, more connected, and more convenient cars we enjoy. And, amazingly, despite all that added weight, a modern minivan can outdrag an E-Type, and return twice its mileage.

I do think the automakers have finally realized that they've pushed the technology to the point where weight is now the single biggest enemy of fuel economy, and we are starting to see lighter cars as a result. Aluminum, carbon-fibre, and high-density steel are becoming more prevalent. Electronics are becoming smaller. Battery technology has moved on, finally. Smaller, lighter turbo & super-charged Atkinson cycle engines are coming.

But you know all this! I just wanted to write it down!

Cheers,

cjp

 

cjp

You make very good points. Interestingly, just this afternoon I got to be looking under my XJL seat, looking for a small piece of jewelry my wife dropped between the seat and the console. Hah... you know how hard to find something like that...

As I looked I paid particular attention to the motor size and the screw-drive mechanism that powers and moves the seat. Tried to estimate the weights involved. Yes, indeed, there are lots of added parts in today's cars. No doubt about it. Your list is long and convincing. I got a real good feeling for nearly every item listed as one time or an other I replaced them with lighter veriations. (for instance; a steering wheel with airbag is about 5 lbs) The only thing I can bring up and wonder about; how some others are able to achieve much lower weights with similar levels of luxury equipment? (911, Viper, Vette)

The Jaguar batteries that you mentioned are indeed larger than in most other cars. Together with the Eco 2nd battery they could account for an easy 35-45 lbs over norm in the F-type. The wheels are very heavy too but, again, they are likely just as heavy on all similar cars with 19 or 20" wheels. My XKR 9.5" rears weigh 64 lbs each. That is rather staggering weight for a single wheel/tire combo. Figure 30 lbs for the 285 tire only, that leaves 34 lbs for the 20" wheel itself. My ultra light 9.5" wide 17" wheels on my RX7 are 17 lbs with 24 lbs 275 wide tires for a total of 41 lbs. There are lots of drawback to these large 20" wheels as the tires that go on them have very short sidewalls. Because of the lack of flexing tire sidewalls, wheels are much more prone to road damage. Because of that they build the wheels extra heavy and build the tires with extra stiff sidewalls to prevent those rim damages from potholes.

You are also correct when saying that the total weight is the sum of all parts, small or large. That is exactly how I saw things in my race and street cars and went through nearly every part in pursuit of lighter weights. I also will not argue with your stated progress in auto technology. Today's cars are far more efficient and generally reliable than those 25 years ago. At times, however (such as last week) as I come up against some totally weird and unexplainable electronic gremlins while working around electronic hardware and software I do wonder how we came to trust much of our existence on the reliability (or lack of) those micro-processor controlled everything :-).

BTW - against all my expectations I did find the missing small jewelry in that incredibly tightly packed space under the seat :-).

 

Well said..... When i pull up in my F-Type it is ALL eyes on... I have never experienced such interest and fascination of a car/.

 

Stunning car! And I agree all eyes on...

Vehicle weights are often propaganda by many European brands....

Good to see jaguar is open and honest.

Many European brands publish dry weights.....so don't pay too much attention.

V8s rips to 60 mph in 3.7 and that's fast!

 

I get three to four comments a day, people leaning out of the windows on the road.

 

Where did you get that 3.7 0-60 time?

 

A fair few reviews. 3.7 isn't even the fastest time from the magazine tests.

 

Motor Trend saw 3.4 for the 0-60 and said they got 11.6@122 for the quarter mile.

 

If I remember right, C&D had also 3.7 and Road and Track had 3.8. Either way, it's quicker than the factory time.

 

Thanks for the info--I don't want to see some YouTube sight showing a V8 F Type being beaten by a Tesla.

 

you know, those Teslas are very quick.... I've seen videos of a Model S and an F10 M5 in a race off the line and the model S held its own until way beyond regular driving/freeway speeds! I've also spent some time in a Model S and it's a genuinely (and deceptively) quick car.

as an aside, the 3.4 second 0-60 and 11.6 quarter mile are on video too, check out the Motor Trend/Ignition page on youtube and it should be there.

 

Yeah the Model S pulls really fast when you stomp on it while rolling at 40 or so. That instant torque is something. The top speed is only around 130 though because of the single gear and the motor running at 14k+ rpm.

 

I beg to differ. On tight twisty slow speed courses, yes. But on faster tracks with substantial straights (Big Willow Springs/Autoclub Speedway Roval), F-Type V8 crushes them. Horse for the course!

 

Dave, the vast majority of posts like that are from members who don't even own the car.
Best to ignore...

 

Not to worry - just doing some reading over morning coffee to start the weekend! But FYI, my comment is based on real world experience. Even the CTS-V owner (560HP) came up to ask about the car commenting about how fast I filled his mirrors on the straight and wanting to know what was under the hood! It is a truly fun occasional track day car. And the coupe is supposed to be 80% stiffer. Carbon ceramics save 40+lbs. sprung weight (and will be available to convertible buyers shortly).

But between as the Astons, Ferraris and Porsche's at the track, the F-Type is the one everyone wants to know about! Funny thing though, my wife gets more comments driving it than I do! :-)

 

yep. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

There truly are so many great choices for beautiful extremely quick sports cars these days.

The new jaguar is one of the finest on the road today. Amazingly fast and beautiful.

There is no wrong choice but rather slightly different takes by various brands that resonate with each individual to the point of ponying up the money to purchase.

The new jaguar f type is a winner! As is the new Porsche 911s, corvette z06, GTR and upcoming Maserati coupe..(ascari) sp....all about the same 100 grand...give or take a few dollars one way or the other....

 

Has anyone actually put one on a scale?

 

Ftype-R, don't know if anyone has put it on a scale but after tracking my R coupe last week I posted my impressions.

I noticed that you own / have owned GTRs. Like the GTR, it's heavy, but the Type R responds more accurately to subtle inputs even though it has less feel. Overall, it's fantastic. I'd take it any day as a road car over the GTR, because its fast and responsive while at the same time refined and smooth. Don't get me wrong, I've spent quite a few $$ to convert my GTR to a 900 hp track dedicated build and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I'd take my Type R as a daily driver over a GTR any day of the week.

As I mentioned in my other post, the Porsche and Vette crowd at the track were drooling over the Type R. More than one said it's an iconic design. High praise from real gear heads. People really appreciate what Jag has accomplished. In my opinion Jaguar really got it right with this car, heavy or not.

 

My dealer has put me into a base model V6 convertible until my R comes in and I have to say that I am impressed. The car feels light compared to the GT-R, almost half way between a GT-R and an S2000. Great steering response, suspension is very reasonable as well. Even on rough roads the car rides smooth. Can't wait for the R now!!