Good evening to all! I'm seeking help concerning chest coat: one or multiple ?

So far forum members have helped me avoid costly mechanical mistakes, recommended excellent improvements & upgrades, suggested what to inspect and check, advised on how to fix faults and, recently, even helped me find a second jaguar (an XJS).

I am considering respraying a black Daimler Double Six (gold pinstripe) in the same colour (but red pinstripe), without going all the way down to bare metal, as there are only a few points of superficial rust and a few points where filler has been used before.

I seek a deep finish that some define as «liquid».
​
A few YouTube videos show how to produce a deep colour finish. It all starts with a super careful preparation from bare metal, etc, etc and ends with three (or more) layers of clear coat, on top of the colour, each coat flatted with 1,000 then 1,200 and finally 1,600 - by hand - plus a final semi cutting polish finish.

I am lucky in that a classic car restorer in southern Italy is willing to do the work charging me only materials (he owes me favours). However, he argues that to get an excellent finish you don't need three, or more, coats of clear plus lots of flatting in between, but one coat, well sprayed.

He argues that, if you flat too much between layers, you remove the clear coat that you just sprayed!

Also, he doesn't know a pinstripe specialist and suggests masking.

​​​​​I'm looking for advice, from anyone with knowledge and experience, as to what's the next best way to obtain that so called «liquid» or deep look without budgeting for a bare metal respray.

​​​​​Regards, Tommaso

 

ascanio1, your friend is correct. If you are spraying really thin coats, you can be spraying and removing what you just sprayed. Putting on a thicker coat and getting that mirror flat then hitting it with a final thin coat, that is how you get the mirror (deep, liquid, etc) paint jobs. You need the paint to the extremely flat at all layers. You start getting ripples in the paint (aka, orange peel) and do not take care of it right away, the ripples only get larger unless you are spraying a super thick coat of clear, then your deep part of the paint looks like hell.

You want that deep, high end paint job, it is going to take a lot of time and lots of attention to sanding off "just enough". YOu hit the color layer after the first coat of clear, you are starting over.

 

@Thermo
Thank you.

Please correct me if I misunderstood:

1. To obtain a deep (or liquid) finish, you need multiple clear coats.
2. Quality flatting between coats is essential.
3. Clear coats must be thicker than normal.
4. Normal thickness coats will be removed by flatting.

If this understanding were correct then, please, can you help me confirm:

1. How thick should the clear coat be?
2. How many of these coats?
3. How many times to flat between each coat?
4. Which flatting sand-paper grades?

This friend is kind and willing to accommodate, but he asks me to be accurate and precise in my instructions. A few classic cars sprayed by him received a rosettes in classic shows, so he can't be that bad ...
​​​​​​
Thank you, Tommaso

 

Tommaso, honestly, I would not be telling him how to do things. Sounds like he has things down pretty well. I personally would be asking him what products he wants and get him that list (maybe even toss in a few extras just for the "thanks" aspect).

As for paint thickness, I do not measure it. This is where trial and error are going to be your worst enemies, but your best friend too. As for layers of clear, I would say 2, maybe 3 (depending on how much you sand). This is where starting with say a "course grade" of 600 and tons of water, I would sand to the point that you see "freckles" (what I mean by this is you have removed all the high spots and you have little islands of sanded areas with veins of glossy clear coat left). You then step to the 1000 grit. Again, lets of water and you sand to the point that the "veins" are barely there or are just starting to join all the freckles into a solid sanded surface. From there, you step up to the 1500 grit and sand that last little bit to make the freckles into 1 big sanded surface. Then you do a final once over of the car with the 2000 grit and lots of water. From there, you do a second coat. Repeating what was done before. Granted, I would probably recommend adding a bit more thinner/mineral spirits just to make this coat a bit thinner. You have a flat surface, you do not want to add too much as this is just going to cause any bumps to form. Then your third coat should be an even more thinned out clear coat. All that this should be is enough clear to "fill in the scratches of the 2000 grit and add just a little more on top". From there, a quick touch with a liquid 2500 grit liquid polishing compound and a polishing wheel, you should be set.

This is where let your friend tell you how much and what to buy. I would also give him as much time as he needs. A quality paint job is going to take a lot of time. Let him make a living and work on your vehicle when things are a little slow. It will keep him happy and you smiling when you get that good paint job that you are after. If I was you, my instructions to your friend would be to find something that he has done (maybe not a show car, but something bordering on a show car) and say "this is what I am after, you do what it takes to reach that". I know some show cars can get some pretty expensive paint jobs ($50K+), but that is the time that was invested in sanding ever so little bit at a very slow rate to get that depth as deep as possible in the clear..

 

Thank you, this was very helpful. I appreciate it. of course I will not put any hurry on him and pay for all consumables. Any advice on brands and products? And on how to paint a pinstripe?

 

ascanio1, this is where I would be asking him what products he likes. I tend to stick with PPG 2 stage paint (what you are doing, a color layer and a clear layer that are separate). But, I have also bought other brands with similar results.

As for a pinstripe. if you are looking for just a basic 1 stripe down the side that is the same size all the way or parallel lines, I would find a roll of pinstripe sticker and install that. Easy to do, you can use masking tape to keep the line consistant from a line on the car. It is much easier to install than you think. If you do not like it, you can also peel it off. When I did mine, I went the extra step and wrapped mine around the edges so as you open the door, the stripe extends part way into the door frame. I Think it is a better look than the stripe stopping a 1/4" from the door seam. But, each to their own. MOdern day pinstripes have lots of color options too. Now, if you are looking for the fancy stuff, there are some options, but you would be better served with what you are planning/thinking.

 

Again, thank you, this is useful.

He uses 2 pack. Either Max Meyers or PPG.

As for the pin stripe, I wasn't aware that one could use adhesive strips: won't the ridge be a problem under the clear coat?

 

The adhesive stripes go on after all the painting is done. Yes, they sit above the clear, but the ridge is very small. That way, if you don't like the stripes, ,peel them off and find something you do like.

 

Today I inspected an XJS and I realised that, as you say, Jaguar applied the pinstripes with an adhesive, externally. Not very elegant. I would want to have them painted under the clear coat.