Hi forum!

I'm new to BEVs, still driving a hybrid Lexus GS 450h but started to look for its successor. The I-Pace was not even on my radar until a few weeks ago, and since then I've read and watched a huge amount of I-Pace info over the web. It was impressive and the mount of PROS was much higher than CONS. I decided to test drive it and preferred a used one since a new HSE costs here a sum equivalent to GBP 138,000 (one hundred thirty-eight thousand, this is not a joke).
A few hours ago I tested a 2018 HSE demo/press vehicle which is up for sale, now with 41,000 km (25,500 miles). The car looks, feels and even smells like new, fit and finish is immaculate and I was truly, very very very impressed with the instant power and overall refinement the I-Pace have (my current GS with its 345 hp is no slouch either, but the I-Pace shove is on a different level) - I handed back the Jaguar key and made up my mind that it very well can be my next daily. Until a few hours later, as some doubts started to creep and that's why I'm posting this here... This I-Pace' overall warranty ends in 5 months and the battery is covered until October 2026 (5.5 years from now) but I was astonished to learn that a new battery costs a fortune by any standard - locally it's equivalent to GBP 66,000 (!) excluding labour... what? what?? even assuming that I'll keep the car just before its battery cover ends, what are the chances this I-Pace will stay with me for the rest of my life as no one will ever be brave or silly enough to purchase an expensive BEV without a battery warranty, and risk such a huge price to replace it if something goes wrong? what does this say on premium BEVs residuals when vehicles get older?

Also, should I be worried with what 3 years and over 40K kilometres as ex-demo/press could do to the vehicle though nothing feels flimsy about it now? In 2 days I have another test drive (2021 SE, showroom demo car) just to feel if there are any differences in overall drive and ride quality but then should I be worried too much for under-the-skin parts on the 2018 HSE that could breakdown soon, but don't yet rattle or squeak?

Appreciate to hear your views, learn and make a sensible decision.

Thank you!

 

Unfortunately we see very few posts on the I-Pace, as it has not sold in huge numbers, (like most EVs apart from Tesla). So why do Tesla manage to sell so many ? Well, it is probably down to the Tesla charging network that is only available to Tesla owners, and is managed and kept properly. With an I-Pace or any other EV you are dependent on the public charging network. You haven't said where you live but clearly your government see motorists as a cash cow.. Of course most people paying all that money for an EV will no doubt charge at home, but that's no good at all if you're on a holiday or touring around. If it were me, I'd stick to hybrid or just plain old fossil fuel for now, petrol or diesel.

 

In general press and demo cars are risky because folks beat the hell out of them. Electric motors are far more tolerant of stress but your concern on the battery is well-founded because if they mostly used fast DC chargers on the car, which may be the case, they've significantly reduced the life of the battery. Having said that what normally wears out a LIthium Battery quickly is doing full cycles (near zero to full) and using fast chargers. Now if you are mostly going to use this for short trips (under 50 miles) and only occasionally use fast chargers the battery should hold to its current level for years. Be aware electric cars are going to go through a ton of changes in the next 5 years, better batteries are coming, better internal chargers, and a host of new features like level 3/4 autonomy. All of this makes a used and well-priced electric less risky than a new one if it hasn't been horribly abused, so at the right price, this could still be a good deal depending on what you need.

 

BEV is not like a gas or hybrid car for long trips. If most of your trips are 200 miles or less this is a car for you. For log trips you can rent a fossil fuel car and have a much better experience. Yes you can charge at public charging stations, but it is quite annoying and the Jag is not very quick to charge. A Tesla has much bigger advantage - there are many more chargers available and they charge much faster.

All that said, the battery is made from individual modules that can be serviced separately (unlike Tesla). I would assume you won't have to replace the whole battery at once. A service technician can produce a battery health report to help you decide if a used car is worth it or not. Also Jaguar charges their vehicles at much more conservative speed (compared to Tesla, Porsche, Audi/VW and Benz), so I would imagine the battery degradation would be less severe with time.

There are quite a number of reports on the longevity of Tesla car batteries and they appear to hold quite well against time.

 

Thanks for the insights above.

I had a few hours of drive today on a 2021 SE (showroom demo with 17,000 km/10,600 miles) and the good news is that a 2018 press/demo car felt the same despite its 40,000 km stressful history - overall refinement, acceleration, being free of rattles, seats/leather condition etc., all seem to be the same on both cars. I Can't tell about the range because today I started with 80%/270 km range for Eco and a few km less for Comfort and Dynamic - my only question mark over a 3 y/o used I-Pace is therefore its unknown residual and attraction once it gets closer to 7-8 years old. Tough decision.

 

My sense is these first-generation cars aren't going to be worth much in 7-8 years but, then again, ICE cars will be hard to sell then as well and people are more likely to want an old EV in that time frame than an old ICE car if programs execute as planned. It is a risk but a lot lower risk with a used one than a new one if you buy it right. Best of luck!

 

This is from Myev.com

The bottom line here is that if it’s properly cared for, an electric car’s battery pack should last for well in excess of 100,000 miles before its range becomes restricted. Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

Here is more info on Batteries

https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-batte...arging%20(DCFC).

 

Wow, thank you for this link, very interesting!
It's reassuring to know that if one buys a used BEV from a private seller there's some hope the first owner did care about proper charging, SOC and so on - though some owners may not bother at all. However, purchasing a used BEV which served as a demo/press vehicle definitely increases the chances you're buying a potential trouble because the importer/dealer couldn't care less about SOC, parking in the shade or usage fast chargers and how all of this does to degradation.

 

I bought a 2018 demo model and I'm so happy about it. The amount of money that I saved on it was incredible. If the price is right, you should definitely pull the trigger!

 

Maybe you can negotiate an extended warranty as part of the deal

 

I thought so as well but they made it clear right from the start that warranty is 3 years bumper to bumper, 8 years on battery and no extensions should be considered...

 

Here is a good article that shows how a Tesla X reached over 300,000 miles and 10% degradation on it's battery. But they used a supercharger for all charging everyday to 100%


A model S had
High Voltage Battery: The Model S has had its high voltage battery replaced twice under warranty at 194,000 and 324,000 miles. Battery degradation over the course of the first 194,000 miles was ~6% with multiple supercharges a day to 95-100%, instead of the recommended 90-95%. Between 194,000 and 324,000 miles Tesloop experienced battery degradation of ~22% (see below for details).

https://drivetribe.com/p/tesla-model...TOSEyfw9G0TN9A

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/...737-kilometers

 

Hi, I'm currently driving a GS450h as well, brilliant car. I'm thinking going BEV and the I-Pace is at the top of my list. Would you share your thoughts about the I-Pace, coming from the GS450h please? While I do have problems with the GS450h, especially with the outdated infotainment system, I've come to love it in the four years I'm using it, so the I-Pace has very big shoes to fill. This big, fast hybrid car has been the best and most reliable vehicle I have owned. As for the I-Pace, I can live with single phase charging and relatively slow DC charging, Touch Pro Duo is OK(ish). The rest of the I-Pace is excellent. Difficult to judge an expensive car I'll (hopefully) be driving for four years at least from a two hours test drive though.
So any thoughts from a previous GS450h would be appreciated.

 

There has been no further posts from Teocall since May, so we don't even know if he bought an I-Pace.
I had a test drive of one recently, my first EV drive, and it was very impressive, just like an up-market car but totally silent ! Tesla interiors are just awful with that huge screen and nothing else. However the exterior style of the Model S is very impressive, like a Maserati ! A good compliment to Maserati and their stylists !!

 

Well, I purchased a 9 months old 2020 I-Pace HSE back in June, 19K km (12K miles), Santorini black with Mars red interior. Private sale, Love it.

You can find a bit more details in comparison to my previous Lexus GS 450h in my reply to mirto.

 

I'm very familiar with the GS hybrid. Had a 3rd gen 2010 MY for 5 years, then a 4th gen 2016 MY until 2 months ago - great cars!
I was really hesitant to move away from Lexus - bulletproof reliability, top notch dealer service, super comfortable, extremely affordable TCO, powerful enough for everyday needs (345 bhp)... there was no real reason to replace it other than I WANTED an I-Pace, because a short drive in one blew my mind.

So how is it compared to a 4th gen GS 450h?

My I-Pace is a 2020 HSE with air suspension and for the most part you can say it's a comfortable car but the GS is way more comfortable! (had air suspension in mine, too) - on any surface the GS absorbs imperfections much better, it's simply less bouncy and got this wafting movement that the Jag lacks. Also, one thing I did not notice when I tested two I-Pace cars before I made the purchase, is that when I move my left foot all the way back towards the seat (close to the door), there's a 'block' on the floor which means my left foot is slightly forward which is not so great for me - and if I lift my foot and place it on top of the heightened floor section (next to the door's sill) then my ankle is at an even less comfortable angle... Not an issue in short hauls but I find it a bit awkward in longer drives. The GS seats are also a bit more comfortable for me, although those in the Jag offer more adjustments.

• NVH - though Lexus vehicles are slick and quiet, there's no match here, at least until you reach ~100 km/h (62 mph) and from this speed the Lexus is as quiet as the Jag, if not quieter.
• Infotainment - both not brilliant, no surprise. My I-Pace is equipped with the previous gen Touch Pro Duo which is laggy but offers much more content to play with (almost too much stuff...). The GS sound system (mine was Lexus Premium, not the Mark Levinson monster) was perfect, so I thought, but the Meridian Surround in the I-Pace is seriously better to my ears - really incredible sound, definition, bass.
• Fit and finish - the GS has been flawless with no squeaks, ticks or strange noises, really felt like a high quality product and the I-Pace is at least as-good, I'm glad to say. Going over road undulations you can feel the Jag's chassis is super rigid but then your ears can tell it's perfectly bolted together, no creaks or noises at all and since the car is whisper quiet at low speeds, it really feels special. However, some lower parts around the doors and console are just hard plastics vs the all-soft material anywhere you touch in the 4th gen GS. Still, the I-Pace is on par with the Lexus in it's perceived quality, overall really nice inside!
• What happens when you press the right pedal - WOW. Until 2 months ago I was sure my GS is an extremely powerful and fast car. And it was. But it pales in comparison to the I-Pace. The way this car gathers forward momentum is absurd!!! For me, the most impressive range is between, say, 30 km/h to 120 km/h (18 to 75 mph) - the pick up in this mid-range is simply staggering (my wife says "deeply shocking" and two all-out acceleration runs were two too-many for her), it's truly addictive, wins hands down over the GS. However, the GS pulls harder at very high speeds but in real life the 30-120 km/h is where most of us spend most of the time, and the Jag shines here with amazing speed build-up and almost total silence vs the whine from the GS hybrid CVT transmission. Acceleration in the I-Pace Is really a fantastic experience.
• Range - what can I say... I don't really have any range anxiety but long runs must be carefully planned, which is very different to my previous life with the ICE/hybrid Lexus or any car before that. I'm pretty sure I'll get used to it, but it's something which you really need to take into consideration before making a move to BEV, any BEV.
• What else? be prepared to get lots of staring eyes, every day and everywhere. Although it's available since 2018, at least where I live the I-Pace is very rare and at every traffic light, parking or anything in-between people stare, point at the car, ask questions or make comments (so far 100% were positive/admiring the design), so I guess I'll just have to accept this...
  
  I loved my GS.
  I love my I-Pace.
  
  Any other questions, please let me know.

 

Thanks for the reply, very appreciated. It seems to be as good as the GS450h, which is nice to hear. I've only had a short test drive in the I-Pace, I wish I could drive the car for a week at least to test it. A couple of hours is just too short to make this decision. When I sat in it the interior quality seemed to match that of teh Lexus, I'll look for that hard plastic when I test drive one again. The E-Tron is another candidate, but I'd be basically buying an electrified Q5 and I never liked Audi for some reason, Brilliant DC charge curve on the E-Tron though. I don't really need a new car, but no taxes for EV and being able to charge home results in crazy low TCO compared to the GS450h. Selling the Lexus will be painfull though

 

Selling a Lexus is easy because of demand and extremely hard because it's a too-nice car to leave - that's why mine is still in the family

But I really enjoy the I-Pace, the overall experience - software lag and bugs aside - is truly great so far.

 

I am also considering a 2018 model at the moment.
Car has 35 000km, not really an issue for me because it's still not much.
My only concern is, how is an 2018 model compared to an 2019 or 2020 model.
I am also considering a 2019 or 2020 model, but it has less options while the 2018 car I like is full option.

Has the 2019 or 2020 model any big hardware differences compared to a 2018 car?
Is the build quality the same? I cannot find any info about this.
2018 was the first release for the I-Pace, probably not an issue, but I am just curious before taking the step.

 

The I-Pace came out in 2018 as a 2019 model and 2020 was little changed other than it came with the software updates and patching from the factory that the older car got during that first year and there were a considerable number of software issues with the 2019 car. But, assuming you make sure the car you get is fully patched, I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference between 2019 and 2020. Typically it takes three years for any major changes outside of critical fixes. There may be some minor hardware changes that haven't been caught but I'm not aware of anyone that has called them out in either of the I-Pace forums or Facebook which I follow. Best of luck!