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Hmmm. I like the Aston Martin idea!
With the carb 1" Spacer out, the front vent tube. Likely touches. Engine pan it just above the scrub line. Wanted 700+ HP the hood be dammed.
Last edited by lickahotskillet; 12-02-2020 at 09:14 PM.
I suspect that, though forward facing, the classic Aston air 'scoop' might really be an air extractor. It's guess work on my part, but I think it's in a low pressure area. It could help suck air through the radiator. The E-type design is better as an air collector. That's why it's the typical location for heater and air-con inlets.
Yes ~ I don't know what the aero looks like on the Astons (have just always loved them). They draw their in-car ventilation air from the LH front wheel well via a convoluted pipe. Inlet/intake air is drawn from under bonnet ahead of carbs baffled by the fan shroud from hot air, be they side draught Webber's or SU's and via a basic plenum chamber.
I think the Aston scoop just helps ventilate the entire engine compartment with extraction under the car & via the wing vents. There is no attempt at cold air inlet. There is no attempt at ram air intake from the scoop. It terminates in a big square underbonnet "outlet" which is semi baffled.
As we both comment the E Type approach is an option.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-03-2020 at 09:54 PM.
The ITB fuel injection has so much tuning advantages and if you want more HP then you add a turbo to it, etc. The other advantage over carb is the computer can adjust for altitude, etc.
Yes ~ I know all those stories. Have run many TB kits on our dynos vs carbs at our labs in Richmond CA & Ghent Belgium. Frequently aftermarket TB injection can't actually match a set of side draught Webers etc. with properly flow benched intake manifolds/heads. Running below stoichiometric with throttle pumps etc. will frequently produce more horsepower. Emissions will suffer.
It is quite a different matter going ground up design with direct injection & with a full house ECU controlling all aspects of continuously controllable/variable timing, knock sensing, MAF, variable inlet tract length, VVT & lift, multipulse, AF ratio etc. ad infinitum right down to cutting the charging circuit & AC swash plate angle at WOT. (e.g. AMG). The joys of CAN networks & multiway communication with ancillaries.
Benefits of TB injection are emissions, better cold running, altitude compensation, less hassle etc. but they can't match a ground up fully integrated design.
Seems Clyde is running a known setup with known bhp & torque curves & want's his >700HP & tractability within a known rev range.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-06-2020 at 06:14 PM.
I think I'm with Alan on this one, Clyde. I've been thinking about your damn hood since you first raised the clearance issue a few years ago, and I still haven't come up with an elegant solution. Does anyone make a stand-alone multi-port fuel injection setup for the Ford block? It's only money, and what's a little more at this point? Maybe a lot more? And just when you thought you were done with the wiring:0) Keep us posted on what you decide. The end is within reach.
I would be uncomfortable about spending the cost of a nice second-hand Jaguar on manifolds (headers). On the other hand, apart from the packaging problem, decent carburettors are no longer cheap and often suffer the issues of reproduction parts.
If there is sufficient wall thickness and accessibility, it might be possible to modify the existing manifolds to (near) port injection. Another option is single point injection (with more than one injector?) where the carbs would sit. It would fit on top of the manifolds, save space and should perform as well as carbs. If you are going to use an ecu to control the ignition, may as well do the fuel as well?
This project got out of hand with "what do you mean i can only get 300 HP out of the straight six?" From the time I drifted away from the original "6" to now has been quite a journey. The only "Ford" item on this engine set up is a used timing pointer. Primaz hit on induction systems I have viewed, Peter's information on air pick-up areas, Doug's mention of his agony as well as mine to what will look ascetically appealing on the hood, to Glyn nailing down my situation to a "T".
There's no sleeper left in this car. FlowMaster Super 44's and a roll cage are a dead giveaway. I used the Super 44's on the '77. The typical comment is "That ain't no Jag!"
I already have the "77 XJ12L with the Big Block Chevy. My machine shop loves Fords. So then I discovered a couple of MK2's with SBF's installed. Too much power for stock suspension - ok an Art Morrison chassis. Then I stared down a Dart Windsor Tall Deck Block for several months that was sitting on the CAMS (machine shop) floor. The block and crank owner decided to sell the combination which would give me another 454 cubic inch engine. At the time the machine shop was cranking out several small Ford combinations just under 700 HP. So I said to Keith - "Whats it take to get 700 HP naturally aspirated. "It's all in the heads" was his reply. The combination from the cam to the top of the manifold is from BES (Bischoff Engine Service) in Indiana. I also knew at that point the hood was going to be a problem. Already up to near $30K in the engine, I did look at throttle body injection, but passed on another $3500+ to $5000 on FI Tech. There is a newer shorter manifold that works on these heads (Edelbrock Glidden Victor II)- I think. Another manifold? More dyno time? Different Carb - maybe? BTW the small snorkel will not pass enough air only 675 CFM so it is out. The bigger snorkel is out of place, but growing on me. Snorkel would be fed by a large filter near the stock oil bath filter location. The carb is a 980 CFM Pro Systems. Maybe no hood for now and a 14" K & N set up like is on my '77 with the pleated filtering cover. Low profile snorkel only flows 675 CFM.
Left crankcase breather hose and throttle linkage bracket
Fuel log and right crankcase breather hose
Fuel pressure regulator and pressure sending unit
Expanded right side view
Tall snorkel flows an advertised 900 CFM
Left side view with tall snorkel
Upper radiator hoses one from each head
I jumped off the wiring, but I'll go back at it this week.
Thanks again for looking.
You have done some awesome work! What's another $8500? it's only money One thing I like having been an old school carb lover is that with my LS with modern fuel injection, there is no more choke issues, starting issues, no issues driving the car anywhere at any altitude, etc. I just put gas in and drive it like I stole it. FYI, if you tint the back windows and passenger windows nobody will see the cage. I have a crazy Datsun 240Z with a 9 point cage, the rear window is smoked and while the body is over the top you cannot see the cage from the rear or back at all; I do have a removable roll bar from the hoop the passenger side near the tunnel and never bother to remove it for the street as the car while flared to the extreme via custom wide body, the hood remains stock and so far the cops do not mess with me...
There is a point where it is best to not cross to keep it a street / track car. I've gone right to that edge on my other car but careful not to beyond that line
Snorkel would be fed by a large filter near the stock oil bath filter location. The carb is a 980 CFM Pro Systems. Maybe no hood for now and a 14" K & N set up like is on my '77 with the pleated filtering cover.
Tall snorkel flows an advertised 900 CFM
Yes ~ if you actually intend using this car & running on some fun mileage I would not dream of using it without appropriate air filtration. Very little dirt/dust/debris/silica will severely damage an expensive engine. Also something we have tested in our labs with the likes of Donaldson, Cummins Fleetguard, Mercedes etc. ad nauseam. And don't go anywhere near one of those K&N oiled screen bolt catchers. They are a disaster filtration wise in real testing. Don't get me wrong they also make some damn good filters & some are made for them by Mann + Hummel, Germany under the K&N brand. e.g. blown polyester.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-07-2020 at 08:01 PM.
Jeff R had to look that word up. Just sanded and oiled - that's all it will get.
Approximate location of the bonnet surgery. Yes Glyn, it's a rock catcher.
If you can drive the car bonnet on or borrow a Mk2. Take flexible cardboard or plastic. Fold a 90 degree tab onto multiple pieces so you have a decent upright area in the airflow & tape to various areas of the bonnet. Go for a high speed run. Note the upright flaps that blow down onto the bonnet at speed & you will know your high pressure areas.
12-02-2020, 08:53 PM
One thing I like having been an old school carb lover is that with my LS with modern fuel injection, there is no more choke issues, starting issues, no issues driving the car anywhere at any altitude, etc. I just put gas in and drive it like I stole it. FYI, if you tint the back windows and passenger windows nobody will see the cage. I have a crazy Datsun 240Z with a 9 point cage, the rear window is smoked and while the body is over the top you cannot see the cage from the rear or back at all; I do have a removable roll bar from the hoop the passenger side near the tunnel and never bother to remove it for the street as the car while flared to the extreme via custom wide body, the hood remains stock and so far the cops do not mess with me...