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I recently purchased my first Jaguar. A two owner southern California car. Wonderful car, it’s all there and all of the “there” is tired. I’ve removed the front and rear suspension and every thing attached to that.
This car has power rack and pinion steering. My original Jag shop manual, that came with the car, does not show anything like this. So, is this a common mod? It’s very nicely done. Definitely a pro installation.
Any information would be greatly appreciated!
i have no definitive information for you, but when i had my steering looked into (too much slack) by a jaguar expert he said that the power steering on my '67 mk2 was not original and was probably a rack and pinion from a later XJ6.
I'm not going to get into this again. Search Ackermann angles. This has been covered ad nauseam. Search on this forum.
They are seldom anywhere close to correct with Rack & Pinion steering installed causing slip of the front wheels. Front wheels require to turn at different angles to maintain Ackermann angles. Many don't care & just scuff up their front tyres. There is the correct way or the any old thing will do attitude.
Racecar Engineering also covers this well ~ Written by engineers for engineers. (might go over some heads)
Jaguar's original steering maintains Ackermann angles.
Rack and Pinion on a Mk2 is not original and is an after market fit. As Glyn has pointed out there are some good ones and bad ones which either get the angles right or not.
Most people who do this retro fit of R&P do so because they feel that the original Jaguar system is sloppy and vague. This has nothing to do with the original Jaguar steering box and arms but 100% due to age and the joints all wearing out. If you were to replace all the ball joints throughout the system ( I did this on my rebuild) and rebuild the steering box then the system is tight and feels like new and in my opinion as good as any rack and pinion system that can be retro fitted.
One of the main reasons OEMS use rack & pinion is they are cheaper to manufacture & lighter. A lot of BS is spoken about their so called benefits. A conventional steering box with drop & idler arms can in fact be better than any Rack & Pinion system.
I have two MK2 Jags, one has a completely standard fully rebuilt manual system and the other has an M&C wilkinson XJ6 rack conversion kit.
The XJ6 conversion is so much better to drive, its a country mile ahead of the original steering system and I would highly recommend it, yes the ackerman angles are not as they should be but the high profile tyres seem to absorb this without any major issues.
My current XJ6 conversion is the second one i've had, the first was on a 1966 S-Type and again transformed the car.
If you already have the conversion I wouldn't remove it.
And please don't tell me it is because of the power steering because all you are doing is making my point. Drive a 420 with the 1200 psi Saginaw pump and your comments would probably be against you again. 2.7 turns lock to lock. Marles Varamatic Bendix PSU (made by Adwest in Reading under license from Bendix Corp US). I live in an area with lots of sharp turns and I can't stand the scrubbing of the front tyres due to not achieving Ackermann angles. It's absolutely audible on a friends converted car. Let's not compare apples with pears.
The best I have experienced is on my Merc fitted with the expensive rack & pinion parametric steering (similar in many ways to the Varamatic. (9.6 to 10.6 degrees castor & Mercs wonderful geometry that leans the inner wheel inward & outer wheel outward where the rubber meets the road in a turn all while maintaining Ackermann angles. Maximises rubber on the road while cornering hard & fast. Look at a Benz at full lock & you will clearly see what I mean.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 02-26-2024 at 06:54 PM.
Many would disagree. In what way is it better to drive? The M&C Wilkinson system is not one of the greatest.
The XJ6 conversion feels much more positive on the road, no doubt helped because it doesn't need as many turns lock to lock.
How many people who fit a rack then go back to a box? You don't see lots of second hand kits for sale which suggests not many.
While the geometry issues exist the end result doesn't drive in a way that suggests it has any problems,. sadly a lot of people who have never driven a good car with the conversion like to rubbish them and so the myth that they are no good continues.
I have both standard and XJ6 converted cars and I know which I prefer, but as the saying goes 'you pays your money and you takes your choice'.
might have been best to have stopped at post #3...
but then we get posts #4, #6, #8, #9, #11. what is the purpose? are you trying to somehow prove that your opinion is some way superior to someone else's? on a forum. really? is that even possible? i think it would be to everyone's benefit if you were to back off a little on the arguing. as it can inhibit the free flow of information which is the purpose of a forum such as this. OTOH, the sharing of a vast amount of knowledge is all good, but not to the point where it becomes incumbent on participants that it be wholeheartedly believed.
might have been best to have stopped at post #3...
but then we get posts #4, #6, #8, #9, #11. what is the purpose? are you trying to somehow prove that your opinion is some way superior to someone else's? on a forum. really? is that even possible? i think it would be to everyone's benefit if you were to back off a little on the arguing. as it can inhibit the free flow of information which is the purpose of a forum such as this. OTOH, the sharing of a vast amount of knowledge is all good, but not to the point where it becomes incumbent on participants that it be wholeheartedly believed.
Sadly this is the way this forum is these days and why a lot of the previous regular posters don't both to come by any more, this forum was a thriving place when I first joined it but slowly its been dragged down by the tone and attitude of some of the posts.
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Sorry if I caused you anguish. I apologize. This is an international forum and South Africans & Aussies say it as it is.
Different countries have different preferences. Americans have always liked over compliant, dangerous barges that go like hell in a straight line but are terrified of corners & cause terror in corners.
Different strokes for different folks. South Africa is like Europe. Hard hugging seats, firm suspensions and outstanding handling in the twisties & tyre & braking department. We also hate whitewall tyres.
I was based in the US for a long time although I traveled 230 days a year globally in the execution of my job. I lived in Dallas & Marin County, Bay Area.
While there I had an attitude of when in Rome do as the Romans do ~ so I adopted American ways & thoroughly enjoyed your country. I have probably seen more of America than the average American. If you can't find somewhere you like in your wonderful country there is something wrong with you. The US has a bit of everything.
might have been best to have stopped at post #3...
but then we get posts #4, #6, #8, #9, #11. what is the purpose? are you trying to somehow prove that your opinion is some way superior to someone else's? on a forum. really? is that even possible? i think it would be to everyone's benefit if you were to back off a little on the arguing. as it can inhibit the free flow of information which is the purpose of a forum such as this. OTOH, the sharing of a vast amount of knowledge is all good, but not to the point where it becomes incumbent on participants that it be wholeheartedly believed.
Huey this is not the first time you have been rude and you really need to change your attitude or there will be no comments from people who are trying to help. When you say in post #1 "Any information would be greatly appreciated!" expect to get some comments and other peoples opinions.
Glyn might go on a bit about what he feels is correct but there is no need to make the above comments. Glyn was not arguing he was making a statement. If you don't like it just stop reading it and move on.
I agree with what Glyn has stated regarding Akerman angles. I also agree that the feeling of a R&P system is far superior to say an early Jaguar Mk2 with a manual type 1 or 2 Burman with its horrendous lock to lock numbers. Rather than going to a R&P system the accepted upgrade is to take the steering from a late S Type or a 420 which had the Adwest Marles PAS system. Very light and has an acceptable lock to lock ratio. Easier to maintain or rebuild than the Burman. This is the system I have as standard on my 1967 S Type and I have no complaints . It is a fairly straight swap for the old Burman box and the Akerman angles remain as factory.
Growing up, American cars were great big floundering cows on crack. When Corvette came out with the 1967 Sting Ray they had four-wheel disc brakes, IRS, rack & pinion... and in America nobody even noticed. So where was the incentive? In the 70's my father always had Mercedes. They were rugged gems. A neighbor always had Cadillacs. His cars were filled with terrible plastic, uncomfortable "bench" seats, and where my dad's Merc had a real wood accented dash, the Caddy had glued-on strips of wood "appearance" paper! The Caddy owner looked at the two cars once and asked: "What's the difference?" So... where was the incentive?
02-25-2024, 07:36 PM
62, MK2, rack and pinion
